Several examples here from our members of my point. Some people just think too much into this type of stuff. It's kinda like how many sources say the female always eats the male which we all know is not true. I don't care what anybody says, they don't instictively go for the neck in order to paralyze their prey. They just eat it alive. Sometimes they just might start eating at the neck first but it doesn't mean they are trying to paralyze the food.
How does a mantis know where the head of an insect is?
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jandl2204
Well-known member
I thinks it is reasonable to assume that this should come to an end concluding we have our opinions.
I would be happy to discuss such a point even if my view was in the minority.
Lee
I would be happy to discuss such a point even if my view was in the minority.
Lee
thanks guys. this answers my question. i also rewatched techuser's hilarious video and it showed various mantises eating different parts of the different insects. but 13ollox's post really confirmed it by observing the mantis eating the same kind of prey (NOT pray lol).
i think it's also safe to assume that mantids don't have a special method of catching and subduing dangerous prey, e.g. bees, wasps, spiders. what probably ends up happening is that the mantis usually has such a tight and vast grip of the prey that it can't sting or bite. i'm sure accidents happen though...just not often observed.
i think it's also safe to assume that mantids don't have a special method of catching and subduing dangerous prey, e.g. bees, wasps, spiders. what probably ends up happening is that the mantis usually has such a tight and vast grip of the prey that it can't sting or bite. i'm sure accidents happen though...just not often observed.
Hi.
The tactics used by the mantid depends to a certain extent on prey size. Larger prey which defends itself strongly, is usually eaten first by the neck. Smaller prey which causes no problems, is randomly eaten. How the mantis knows where the head is: they have a variety of instinctive "pictures" in their "brain" of how prey should look and move like. Certain forms elicit a stronger prey capture response as others. How can an empusid, e.g., distinguish between so-called "flying insects" and others, catching only the first, even when they do not fly?
There are not as simple creatures as one may think!
Christian
The tactics used by the mantid depends to a certain extent on prey size. Larger prey which defends itself strongly, is usually eaten first by the neck. Smaller prey which causes no problems, is randomly eaten. How the mantis knows where the head is: they have a variety of instinctive "pictures" in their "brain" of how prey should look and move like. Certain forms elicit a stronger prey capture response as others. How can an empusid, e.g., distinguish between so-called "flying insects" and others, catching only the first, even when they do not fly?
There are not as simple creatures as one may think!
Christian
I still maintain that it is totally random. Here is a pic of large mantis eating equally large prey in the form of another mantis. So by your theory this mantis should consider this prey large and dangerous and eat it by the neck. However as you see it started eating it down near the end of the thorax near the base of the wings. This was not done intentionally either in case anyone asks. They were both out of cages for cleaning and the chinese decided to roam around and got caught.
Johnald Chaffinch
Well-known member
i reckon if they see an insect moving and can position themselves right that SOME mantids will attempt to eat the head and neck area first.
they definitely arent going at random
they definitely arent going at random
J
julian camilo
Guest
i was watching my wahlbergii L1 as i was worried if they would be able to handle the d.hydei i gave them, and when i saw them catch one, they kind of just pinned it to the floor and began eating anywhere, it looked like the end of the thorax/beginning of abdomen (pretty much halfway). i dont think it had the capability to reposition it or start by eating the neck/head, the hydei is almost the same size as it. ive seen this also with older wahlbergii. they are known for attacking and eating prey their size or even bigger. when ive seen them do this, they havent gone for the head or neck i dont think, they just seem to start eating halfway between their forearms ie. directly in front of them, as the prey is so big.
however, watching my gongylus, whenever they catch a fly (very small compared to the gongs size), they never simply snap forward, grab, and snap back, there always seems to be (what LOOKS to me) as some repositioning. however this could be due to the fly struggling and the mantis trying to get a better grip on it too. but with gongs and flies, they always start eating the head or thorax, i have seen. maybe its because they can afford to, in terms of size of prey compared to their size and the size of their forearms. i think if a mantis were to attack another mantis of a similar size, itd be pretty difficult for it to go to all the trouble of repositioning, or reaching round to eat the head first, so they just eat whats there in front of them.
this is just what ive seen.
however, watching my gongylus, whenever they catch a fly (very small compared to the gongs size), they never simply snap forward, grab, and snap back, there always seems to be (what LOOKS to me) as some repositioning. however this could be due to the fly struggling and the mantis trying to get a better grip on it too. but with gongs and flies, they always start eating the head or thorax, i have seen. maybe its because they can afford to, in terms of size of prey compared to their size and the size of their forearms. i think if a mantis were to attack another mantis of a similar size, itd be pretty difficult for it to go to all the trouble of repositioning, or reaching round to eat the head first, so they just eat whats there in front of them.
this is just what ive seen.
Hi.
The term "neck" must not be taken categorically. Usually, they try to chew on the first third of the body first, what should be sufficient to immobilize the prey soon. Mantids are often eaten first by the prothorax-mesothorax junction to keep the forelegs of the prey out of reach. Of course this does not happen everytime, but often enough to be of a likelihood of more than 50%.
Drosophila are not a really dangerous prey for a mantis.
Regards,
Christian
The term "neck" must not be taken categorically. Usually, they try to chew on the first third of the body first, what should be sufficient to immobilize the prey soon. Mantids are often eaten first by the prothorax-mesothorax junction to keep the forelegs of the prey out of reach. Of course this does not happen everytime, but often enough to be of a likelihood of more than 50%.
Drosophila are not a really dangerous prey for a mantis.
Regards,
Christian
Based on my observation, most of the time mantis will go for the thorax because they have a good grip of a large prey holding the head and abdomen part, but it is not necessary going to one specific part of body once the prey is secured, sometimes they will for legs, wings, or even abdomen first.
bruty2fruity
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all my mantises eat from anywhere. never always one space. i spose it depends on how stron the prey is to them. ie if it struggles kill it quick if it dont do as u please
It is random.
The reason some prey is eaten from different directions sometimes at higher percentates has to do with the direction a type of prey moves in relation to the mantis rather than some idea that the mantis decides where it would like to take a bite. Keep in mind prey moving towards a mantis is more likely to be going head first than running backwards. Matching up unrelated results is a dangerous pitfall of logic.
The reason some prey is eaten from different directions sometimes at higher percentates has to do with the direction a type of prey moves in relation to the mantis rather than some idea that the mantis decides where it would like to take a bite. Keep in mind prey moving towards a mantis is more likely to be going head first than running backwards. Matching up unrelated results is a dangerous pitfall of logic.
also, i think mantids may be repositioning their food just to get a spot on its prey where there aren't busy moving parts that would block the mantis's way. hence if legs are sticking up and kicking into the mantid's face, the mantis would reposition the prey so the legs are no longer kicking in its way.
Johnald Chaffinch
Well-known member
it's kind of similar to when a big cat goes for the neck to suffocate it's prey, it's the easiest way to immobilize the whole animal. i suppose they've evolved to instinctively go for that area, more often than not, because the ones that have were more successful.
i find it surpising how many people think it's random. it shouldnt be too hard to do a test on this (and trying different species)...
Christian do you know if some species do this more than others?
i find it surpising how many people think it's random. it shouldnt be too hard to do a test on this (and trying different species)...
Christian do you know if some species do this more than others?
Hi.
Obviously we do not achieve a consense on this.
I made enough observations to rely on my opinion that prey is reajusted more often than in half of all cases when prey is big. I cannot accept the argument that
Regards,
Christian
Obviously we do not achieve a consense on this.
I made enough observations to rely on my opinion that prey is reajusted more often than in half of all cases when prey is big. I cannot accept the argument that
, as prey is reajusted after the strike, regardless of which direction it aprroached or was grabbed. I did not observe any differences between species egarding this issue, what does not mean, however, that there may not be such differences.So, everyone of us has made several good observations to underline his arguments. Only a study including statistical analysis could clarify this point satifactorily.
Regards,
Christian
I recognize mantids readjust their prey for various reasons however I argue the point that they go for the "neck" in order to paralyze prey. There may be many things we do not agree on but debating it in a friendly discussion is always good.
Johnald Chaffinch
Well-known member
also, dont mantids snip the wings off butterflies and moths, in the same kind of instinctive way?
rickyc666
Well-known member
my mantids just catch and eat prey any way it comes. the same applies to my orchids except for bees. every time i give them bees, they seem to catch them sideways or turn them sideways instantly as if to avoid being stung. maybe it has something to do with the black and yellow colouring that warns other animals the bee is poisonous.
but this is just a personal observation, it would be good to know for sure.
but this is just a personal observation, it would be good to know for sure.
