sporeworld
Well-known member
THAT is brilliant! I've scan tons of pages of info on these guys specifically, and never heard that one before.
If anyone can get a pic of this, or comparison PLEASE post it! Thanks!
Idolomantis Consolidated
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If anyone can get a pic of this, or comparison PLEASE post it! Thanks!
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Good point. certainly the idea that empusids (or any other kinds of mantis) can only take flies and that other feeders are potentially harmful has pretty much gone out of fashion in recent years, and Christian Schwartz's comment in part 2 of his article that you have:, is to the point: "...older nymphs and adults also catch cursorial insects from time to time, greatly influenced by individual preference". "Individual preference" is the operative phrase, and if the prey insect has to be mutilated and the mantis coaxed into sampling its vital fluids first, then it is obviously not a part of that individual's preference.
The analogy with human nutrition, and our need for a varied diet does not seem to have much force regarding insects. A Stagmomantis carolina may sit on a leafy branch for most of its late nymphal and adult life and must make do with whatever flies by. No decapitated meal worms of crickets or longitudinally sliced larvae for him! And yet the race continues to flourish.
The significant importance of airborne insects to the Idolo's diet is almost certainly a function of their carrying pollen, and I have no doubt (I think that you have mentioned it) that you are already giving that.
And so the epic continues!
sporeworld
Well-known member
Pollen would hold up if fed only uncoated blue bottles, would it...? What I read suggested at one point was that it had sometihg to do with digesting the wing (which they seldom eat), or that, more to the point, something in crickets caused problems in ooth production. If the later, I suspect that same probelm wouldn't occur from feeding them, say, hummingbirds (yuck). I fed my first adult legless-female pieces of chicken and honey-dipped flies, and even laying on her back, she still produced a fertile ooth (OK, so it only popped out ONE nymph, but it still counts!).
sporeworld
Well-known member
HEALTH NOTE:
I had an Idolo die this morning from something I'd seen once a year or so back when I did Idolos.
http://s1085.photobucket.com/albums/j439/Sporeworld1/?action=view&current=dacd6307.mp4
The video above shows it best, but a few hours earlier, she was looking kinda "droopy". Holding her arms a little over her head. AT first I though maybe she was going to shed. But then she put her arms all the way down, which isn't right. He legs were fully extended, too. I saw her abdomen laboring. There's a small peice of feces stick to her, but I it wasn't IN her. When I felt her, she was very "soggy", like when they are about to molt.
She was nearly dead on a flower this morning. Not molted, but soggy and kind of deflated. I put her in the freezer.
She was eatting Blue bottles earlier yesterday and the day before, but no more than some of the others (a little less, if anything). She was NOT one of the ones that ate crickets or superworms.
She was not (visibly) injured. No sign of infection, or blemishes that I could see.
None of the other are showing any symptoms, so I suspect it's one of the pre-molting problems I've heard discussed elsewhere, and not the living conditions.
Anyone else experience this?
I had an Idolo die this morning from something I'd seen once a year or so back when I did Idolos.
http://s1085.photobucket.com/albums/j439/Sporeworld1/?action=view&current=dacd6307.mp4
The video above shows it best, but a few hours earlier, she was looking kinda "droopy". Holding her arms a little over her head. AT first I though maybe she was going to shed. But then she put her arms all the way down, which isn't right. He legs were fully extended, too. I saw her abdomen laboring. There's a small peice of feces stick to her, but I it wasn't IN her. When I felt her, she was very "soggy", like when they are about to molt.
She was nearly dead on a flower this morning. Not molted, but soggy and kind of deflated. I put her in the freezer.
She was eatting Blue bottles earlier yesterday and the day before, but no more than some of the others (a little less, if anything). She was NOT one of the ones that ate crickets or superworms.
She was not (visibly) injured. No sign of infection, or blemishes that I could see.
None of the other are showing any symptoms, so I suspect it's one of the pre-molting problems I've heard discussed elsewhere, and not the living conditions.
Anyone else experience this?
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Precarious
Well-known member
That's a shame. She was a big girl. I've never seen anything like that before in mantids, but I'd imagine it's not uncommon for insects to die while preparing to molt. I had a female Whipscorpion that molted to adult. She made it almost all the way out then just died for no reason. Wasn't stuck or anything. When I pulled she slid right out of the skin.
Sad. Hope you don't lose any more.
guapoalto049
Well-known member
As a matter of fact Mark, I've got some:
I don't have any pictures of swollen wing buds without 'protruding' genitalia, but most people can imagine this.
BTW, these were taken around 6 hours pre molt.
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angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Having over 30 L6 and up Idolo makes it a little hard taking pic's of all them, but how I can tell is when I release a multitude of flies in there tank, the one(s) that don't grab a big mac with wings are the ones that will molt very soon as they watch there roommate with a big mac in each raptor greedily eat one down to get to the other in his/her grip. I try to feed 3-5, fat honey laden BB's per mantis per day, and they seem very happy and content on that and occasionally give me the knuckle bump
@Sporeworld: I had a random death of one just the other day as you described, no real reason or clue why, she was not bitten or chewed on and seemed healthy till I awoke to find her on the floor barely moving(trying to crawl but to weak) and I picked her up and set her on some lower branches to no avail, she moved less and less through the day only to die that night, she was in a big tank with 15 others and she was the only target of the Grimm Reaper, strange never seen that before? Maybe it's just natural selection enforcing it's will.
@Sporeworld: I had a random death of one just the other day as you described, no real reason or clue why, she was not bitten or chewed on and seemed healthy till I awoke to find her on the floor barely moving(trying to crawl but to weak) and I picked her up and set her on some lower branches to no avail, she moved less and less through the day only to die that night, she was in a big tank with 15 others and she was the only target of the Grimm Reaper, strange never seen that before? Maybe it's just natural selection enforcing it's will.
guapoalto049
Well-known member
BTW my post only related to subadults ready to molt. Idolos get swollen wing buds for a longer period of time than most species, so it would be adventageous to notice the signs of an impending molt, i.e. the extended genitalia. This is beneficial particularly to those keeping communal Idolos. The last molt is dangerous enough, even without its siblings crawling all over it
alicenwnderlnd
Well-known member
I lost my first idolo today :angry: eaten by her sister... they have been bickering for days, i should have separated them. what a bummer!
eaten by her sister... they have been bickering for days, i should have separated them. what a bummer!
sporeworld
Well-known member
Sorry 'bout that Alice. :-(
To anyone questioning the appetite of these beastm here's pic of my subadult having NO problem with a huge moth!
To anyone questioning the appetite of these beastm here's pic of my subadult having NO problem with a huge moth!
sporeworld
Well-known member
I had a molting look like it might go wrong (too much activity from siblings), so I gt nervous and used my makeshift molting assistant (just a cut peice of pool noodle). Wedged it in place, and all ended well.
Not as sophisticated as the molting net, but it worked!
Not as sophisticated as the molting net, but it worked!
Precarious
Well-known member
That seems to have worked swimmingly, old chap! :euro: <- Old English pool humor
I know, I know... "Don't quit my day job". Hey, I don't have a day job! I'm unemployed.
Maybe it was all the pool jokes and silly mustaches that got me fired.
inch: fftopic: Now back to our regularly scheduled program... :whistling: 
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PhilinYuma
Well-known member
I never thought that i'd be posting on this thread except for admiring Oohs and AAhs and the occasional head nod in agreement. But suddenly, the second of my four CB ooths from Frey has started to hatch and I now have 30 L! nymphs.
A first minor note regards how to tell if one of these ooths has already hatched. This was a major concern when folks had ooths that weren't hatching. There is a slightly inverted zipper, and in the first ooth, that has given up 21 nymphs, it is clearly unzipped. In the second one, though, aside from a trace of exuvium, it is hard to tell which of the two ooths gave up nine babies. Frey has warned me that sometimes an ooth will hatch in bursts and should be kept in the hatching chamber, so that is what I have done.
One important thing is to make sure that you have plenty of HFs as soon as you put the ooths in the chamber. It has been mentioned here already, I think, that Idolos start out on HFs. Some are successful at their very first try, some need more trial and error, but with 30 L!s, my weekly fly consumption (not "mine" of course, I'm big enough for BBs) has suddenly increased by about 700, so be prepared!
A first minor note regards how to tell if one of these ooths has already hatched. This was a major concern when folks had ooths that weren't hatching. There is a slightly inverted zipper, and in the first ooth, that has given up 21 nymphs, it is clearly unzipped. In the second one, though, aside from a trace of exuvium, it is hard to tell which of the two ooths gave up nine babies. Frey has warned me that sometimes an ooth will hatch in bursts and should be kept in the hatching chamber, so that is what I have done.
One important thing is to make sure that you have plenty of HFs as soon as you put the ooths in the chamber. It has been mentioned here already, I think, that Idolos start out on HFs. Some are successful at their very first try, some need more trial and error, but with 30 L!s, my weekly fly consumption (not "mine" of course, I'm big enough for BBs) has suddenly increased by about 700, so be prepared!
sporeworld
Well-known member
Welcome to the club!
I'm finding the first few days, they do better on Hydei than on House Flies. They only eat the heads off the big House Flies, and they have some trouble catching them anyway. Also, I've done a few rounds of L1 & L2's with ONLY Hydei. I think they might have been "happier" with HF's, but they were fine, and probably better off.
As mentioned in an earlier post, a House Fly to fill them up, then Hydei to keep them "topped off".
Of course, NOW my subadults have begun habitually catching flies with just one claw, saving the sencond for the next fly to go by. They are insatiable PIGS!!!
I'm finding the first few days, they do better on Hydei than on House Flies. They only eat the heads off the big House Flies, and they have some trouble catching them anyway. Also, I've done a few rounds of L1 & L2's with ONLY Hydei. I think they might have been "happier" with HF's, but they were fine, and probably better off.
As mentioned in an earlier post, a House Fly to fill them up, then Hydei to keep them "topped off".
Of course, NOW my subadults have begun habitually catching flies with just one claw, saving the sencond for the next fly to go by. They are insatiable PIGS!!!
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Yeah, the point about different sized houseflies is often overlooked. Chuck's (SpiderPharm) are a little on the small size, apparently what his spiders prefer. Certainly the ones that lure from outside to their deaths are larger, but I'll toss in a bunch of D. hydei tomorrow, just to be sure.Welcome to the club!
I'm finding the first few days, they do better on Hydei than on House Flies. They only eat the heads off the big House Flies, and they have some trouble catching them anyway. Also, I've done a few rounds of L1 & L2's with ONLY Hydei. I think they might have been "happier" with HF's, but they were fine, and probably better off.
As mentioned in an earlier post, a House Fly to fill them up, then Hydei to keep them "topped off".
Of course, NOW my subadults have begun habitually catching flies with just one claw, saving the sencond for the next fly to go by. They are insatiable PIGS!!!
sporeworld
Well-known member
Yup! Spiderpharm are the smallest I've found (they can often get through the screen mesh on deli cups, so beware). Mantisplace seems to the medium to large size.
FYI, a week old L1 Idolo CAN take down and hold a Blue Bottle. I've seen it!
Also, I noticed on two ooths, a few nymphs that got stuck comging out of the ooth, despite a nearly 100% humidity level. No good explaination.
FYI, a week old L1 Idolo CAN take down and hold a Blue Bottle. I've seen it!
Also, I noticed on two ooths, a few nymphs that got stuck comging out of the ooth, despite a nearly 100% humidity level. No good explaination.
sporeworld
Well-known member
Anyone else notice sub adults favoring one leg...? I've got 2 that hang with one particular leg held out. When walking, they use the leg (apparently) just fine. Very odd.
Precarious
Well-known member
L1 can eat an entire medium sized blue bottle. Here is one eating a wild caught fly.
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Well it's about time Phil, Welcome aboard ! I do hope Jus is doing OK, she sent me a message that I won't disclose here, but it was not good news.
And yeah Spore some of mine hold the one leg out also, no clue why as it seems to work just fine? They only do it when they want and then boom they start using it again, strange? Maybe there shear weight is giving them some sort of claw pain, so they rest it for abit?
And yeah Spore some of mine hold the one leg out also, no clue why as it seems to work just fine? They only do it when they want and then boom they start using it again, strange? Maybe there shear weight is giving them some sort of claw pain, so they rest it for abit?
sporeworld
Well-known member
Yeah, or maybe a burnt or damaged "toes" that makes it uncomfortable, but not impossible, to use.
