Idolomantis Consolidated

[sporeworld]

A modification to add a molting surface (branches, BioVines, or other methods mentioned here) the top of a net cage can work, if you can keep the humidity up. But netcages is general, aren't as good for viewing or photography (IMO). But they ARE crazy-easy to clean.

You can see here that adults can move around and even mate easily enough in a netcage. But molting is still a challenge without a better-suited ceiling.

And I really don't think they are a difficult species. MORE difficult than the AVERAGE species, but not overly- complicated, once your system is in place. (But we've covered all that).

Good luck!

 

[gripen]

i would add though that you should not handle them before L5 because they are so fragile and dainty. i completely agree about what you said about idolos VS blephs VS gongys.

 

[sporeworld]

Obviously, I'm an Idolo fan. The claws are really more like venus fly traps than crushing spears. I've never had one grab me with them (ever). Just threat displays and jabs.

Gripen gives you good advice (thanks, Gripen) when he recommends not to handle them before L5 - or ever, really. But where's the fun in that...? ;-)

I'll give you RISKIER advice and say - go for it! Maybe go easy on the L1 and L2's, but have fun! My bug area is carpeted, so the few times they've jumped and made a run for it, they were fine.

I have a really thick rope that I string over my desk and let them crawl on it. Fun, fun, fun!

 

[sporeworld]

Here's a good idea of how big they get... L1 and Adult on a Tennis Ball, with a hand in the shot.

 

[sporeworld]

Yen just posted this thread with a GREAT guide to sexing Idolo nymphs. Check it out!

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=24368&pid=189028&st=0entry189028

 

[warpdrive]

update: today I a have a new L5 Idolo who molted two days after the first to reach L5. that makes two L4 to L5 Idolos in 10 days time. (shouldn't this be about 3 weeks before they molt to L5)

after speaking to Yen briefly, he says that it sould be because of over eating. so I'm posting how I feed.

I have 11 Idolos in a net cage. room temps max out at 85F, but are mostly lower.

I feed 8 to 10 BB flys each day.

this means that at least 1 or 2 Idolos miss a meal each day so none are ultra fat and some are thin but not starving.

does anyone here think that this is too much?

Harry

 

[Precarious]

it would also be nice to have a reply from you my Precarious friend. :sailor:

Harry

I feed mine more than that. I try to feed at least one for each nymph, but sometimes twice that many depending on availability. I want mine to eat as much as they care to. That's the best way to avoid cannibalism. I can also skip a day hear and there if I need to. They don't seem to overeat at all. I stuffed my Idolos last time and they did well, but these don't want to eat as much. Mine are older than yours too so a BB is a bigger meal for yours.

Not sure on the timing between molts. I didn't pay that close attention this time around and I'm using different conditions than last time. But I've got 7 together and one is growing significantly faster than the others. It's at least one molt ahead of the others and they're from the same hatch.

 

[warpdrive]

I feed mine more than that. I try to feed at least one for each nymph, but sometimes twice that many depending on availability. I want mine to eat as much as they care to. That's the best way to avoid cannibalism. I can also skip a day hear and there if I need to. They don't seem to overeat at all. I stuffed my Idolos last time and they did well, but these don't want to eat as much. Mine are older than yours too so a BB is a bigger meal for yours.

Not sure on the timing between molts. I didn't pay that close attention this time around and I'm using different conditions than last time. But I've got 7 together and one is growing significantly faster than the others. It's at least one molt ahead of the others and they're from the same hatch.

the reason why I bring it up is that on the first page that lists the care sheet, it shows both yours and sporeworld's time table.

it lists them to molt from L4 to L5 as 20 days for you, and 17 days for Sporeworld. with my temps being 85F max, and down to only 75F just before my heat in my apartment turns back on, seems low or lower then what you and others have been doing. yet mine seem to cut the time to molt in half.

maybe I'm making too much out of nothing. I'm just amazed that my Idolos are now begining to molt to L5 and I feel that I'm in no way over feeding them and my temps are far from high.

I hope I'm not in any way sounding silly. I'm just wondering out loud to some of you guys in hopes that we all might learn something.

Harry

 

[Precarious]

the reason why I bring it up is that on the first page that lists the care sheet, it shows both yours and sporeworld's time table.

it lists them to molt from L4 to L5 as 20 days for you, and 17 days for Sporeworld. with my temps being 85F max, and down to only 75F just before my heat in my apartment turns back on, seems low or lower then what you and others have been doing. yet mine seem to cut the time to molt in half.

Those times are from my first batch and I wasn't adding any extra heat. They do fine without it. 75 was about the average temp. I'm adding some this time just because they really seem to respond to it and my setup allows for it.

I would guess there are many variables - from genetics to humidity/temp to food - that have cumulative effect on molt times so there are no hard fast rules, but it would seem universal that higher temps speed metabolism and maturation rate. Not sure why yours would break that rule. But like I said, I have some kept under identical conditions with one taking a distinct lead in development. Maybe you've got some genetic advantage going.

 

[sporeworld]

Not sure about the odd time table. But food wise, I've never seen any problem with over eatting, other than the flies becoming a hazzard when the Idolos are full. Eventually, I either let the exttra flies go, extract them from the enclosure, or (and this is just me) add smaller (or bigger) fly-eatting mantids to eat off the extras (don't try this at home, kiddies). (old pic)

 

[Chivalry]

Couple of noob questions and thoughts.

My first one is still solo at L4 (I think will molt to 5 soon), and the trio I got later are just molting to L4. Are they likely to do okay together? I currently have the trio in the ZooMed and the first one is and has been separated; I'd really like to move him in with the gang.

Still having a heck of a time keeping humidity up in the ZooMed. Going to try a moisture retaining substrate next, or maybe a live plant.

I had problems with them falling for no obvious reason. I think that their feet were getting through the material I covered the metal screen with, so I've since replaced that with something more dense, plus branches (they insist on hanging between the branches from the ceiling). The one that was the worst has molted without a problem and seems fine now, so fingers crossed that we're past that issue.

Metal screen = EVIL. I don't think that can be emphasized enough.

 

[Precarious]

Couple of noob questions and thoughts.

My first one is still solo at L4 (I think will molt to 5 soon), and the trio I got later are just molting to L4. Are they likely to do okay together? I currently have the trio in the ZooMed and the first one is and has been separated; I'd really like to move him in with the gang.

Still having a heck of a time keeping humidity up in the ZooMed. Going to try a moisture retaining substrate next, or maybe a live plant.

I had problems with them falling for no obvious reason. I think that their feet were getting through the material I covered the metal screen with, so I've since replaced that with something more dense, plus branches (they insist on hanging between the branches from the ceiling). The one that was the worst has molted without a problem and seems fine now, so fingers crossed that we're past that issue.

Metal screen = EVIL. I don't think that can be emphasized enough.

Yeah, you got that right. No metal screens.

It's iffy putting different instars together. No guarantee that won't lead to cannibalism. Be smart about it. Too much difference in size can be especially bad. You can give it a shot if you're willing to risk it. Just make sure there is always food available.

I don't suggest moist substrate unless you keep it in a shallow dish within the Zoo-Med. That way the moisture is contained and won't cause mold elsewhere in the tank, plus it's much easier to remove and clean. I use the shallow containers Chinese food comes in. I fill them with wet moss. Works well, but there is no substitute for misting the tank a couple times a day. Potted plant will help but so will increasing surface area and misting regularly. Fake leafy vines hold a lot of spray that takes time to evaporate. Also is good climbing surface for the nymphs.

 

[warpdrive]

Nick, you should have seen the uproar when they heard from me that many of you guys were going to use glass (exoterras and fish tanks). they thought you guys were crazy. just couldn't be done were the thoughts that were kind and nice.

on behalf of all the newbies, a BIG thank you for all of your hard work.

Harry

 

[Gill]

Nick, you should have seen the uproar when they heard from me that many of you guys were going to use glass (exoterras and fish tanks). they thought you guys were crazy. just couldn't be done were the thoughts that were kind and nice.

on behalf of all the newbies, a BIG thank you for all of your hard work.

Harry

Is this the thread? http://www.ukmantisf...59894#post59894

It's just that our caresheet says aquariums are recommended and only one member critised the cage (though not for being glass.

I am on the ukforum staff. The thread I linked was May 2011, a year ago. Idolos were bred in the US before the UK (as it says in our care sheet) .

And whoever said

as it seems some (well many) overseas didn't think we had what it takes to get anything but budwings and creos bred,

has not kept an eye on who is breeding what.

 

[Precarious]

Is this the thread? http://www.ukmantisf...59894#post59894

It's just that our caresheet says aquariums are recommended and only one member critised the cage (though not for being glass.

It's all cool with me. I don't think anyone should be hurt on either end. I was going against the grain of what had been proven to work so I caught resistance from US keepers too. It was an experiment and others decided to join in and also try glass. But, hey, whatever works. Personally I ended up having all females in my tiny colony so didn't get much chance to breed but others who had larger numbers were able to make it happen. I think the final outcome is there is more than one method that works, but both require a large community of Idolo. I want to find a way to make it happen using smaller numbers. Probably a lost cause but I'll keep dreaming. The established methods were geared toward a large colony and since I was working with much smaller numbers I did what worked best for me and my video camera.

That being said, there was quite a bit a disinformation out there on Idolo care when I first got my nymphs(such as suggestions of low humidity) and luckily I was able to see through it. I'm not sure if that was purposeful, in order to keep others from finding success, or just poor research on the part of others. Either way, it is very difficult if not impossible to maintain the humidity levels Idolo require in a net cage. What's more, their legs get stuck, they lose the tips of their craws and even whole feet if the weave is too tight. No one can dispute those two points. So to me it appeared the net enclosure suggestions fell into the realm of disinfo. Maybe others can dedicate a whole room to be kept at very high humidity. I can't.

So again, it didn't mean anything to me for anyone to criticize my setup. To each their own. What does have meaning to me is that it worked. I got adults - all females, but still adults.

 

[angelofdeathzz]

Just a quick update, from the 11 ooths I hatched out(from my females)there were 350-375 nymphs and I kept about 50 L1's for re-breeding, I now have about 45 left from L4 to adult. One 3.5 week female adult and two adult males one is 3 weeks and one molted to adult last night, all molted perfectly with no issues, so I'll have to see if I can get a few more with such a good/lucky ratio 3 for 3(100%) no mismolts on the final molt yet.

I only kept so many(50) as I expected more deaths along the way which aren't happening, well yet anyway, only 2 mismolts and 3 random drop deads so far.

So that puts some 300+ Idolos out there among many forum members I sent out to, some good friends some I never hear from except for a few questions/tips which I very much love to answer and help with, but I would be very interested to hear how other people are doing with their Idolo, be it from Yen or myself?

 

[Psychobunny]

I see lots of people keeping idolo communally in large cages!!??

Is it safe to do that? If so, that would be ideal for me instead of keeping them

seperate, which takes up too much space.

Is it okay to have L4's together with L6 and higher?

What about mixing the sexes together??

I have a Exo Terra 18 X 18 X 18 that I would love to put ALL my idolo in

 

[Precarious]

I see lots of people keeping idolo communally in large cages!!??

Is it safe to do that? If so, that would be ideal for me instead of keeping them

seperate, which takes up too much space.

Is it okay to have L4's together with L6 and higher?

What about mixing the sexes together??

I have a Exo Terra 18 X 18 X 18 that I would love to put ALL my idolo in

As far as I'm concerned, it's the only way to raise them. They really require a lot of space, especially at later instars. Cups will no cut it. Adults need to hang at an angle after final molt or wings will be imperfect and they prefer to do this by dropping to a branch lower than where they molted. Can't do that in any kind of cup.

It's risky to mix instars separated by more than one molt of any species. You may get away with it if you feed really well but there is always a risk. No problem mixing sexes.

Just make sure you cover the screen on any cage you use and follow all the other guidelines.

 

[sporeworld]

Yup! What he said.

I'm all about the communal living, and am very willing to accept losses, if they occur (although, of course, I'd prefer to prevent them). I've heard a few report recently of "friendly fire" incidents, but that was not my experience with very, very large numbers and plenty of food.

Repeating ad nauseum, it's 1-2-3:

1. get the molting surface right

2. keep the humidity above the 40% rh threshold

3. LOTS of flying, fluttering food

 

[Psychobunny]

Do you buy the ZooMed vines or some other brand?