Illegal to keep Exoctic Insects without permits

[spider_creations]

So does this mean all of our non native mantids we have to kill.....moon light mantids had a vid on this and said they are fine and you don't need a permit .....I want some more proof than just 2  people..... That at first got mixed up between SP. And one said that you can't ship even native SP. Uhg right as I get into this hobby I am getting kicked out to only native SP. Very welcoming indeed 

I also did some digging and found this 


 


Exotic animal defined
As used in ORS 609.305 (Exotic animal defined) to 609.355(Issuance of permit upon lapse of federal license or registration)and 609.992 (Penalties for ORS 609.319), exotic animal means:

(1)Any member of the family Felidae not indigenous to Oregon, except the species Felis catus (domestic cat);

(2)Any nonhuman primate;

(3)Any nonwolf member of the family Canidae not indigenous to Oregon, except the species Canis familiaris (domestic dog);

(4)Any bear, except the black bear (Ursus americanus); and

(5)Any member of the order Crocodylia. [1985 c.437 §2; 1999 c.699 §3; 2009 c.492 §1]

 

[spider_creations]

Indeed that is correct Rick, I got a reply already.

Here is the entire response from Wayne F Wehling ( [email protected] )

He also answered another question besides the basic ones I asked. Any native or naturalized mantid can freely be kept and shipped between the continental 48 states, which is a blessing to keepers, as we can get and keep very region specific mantids. So I'll do more digging and get a longer list that is 100% legal for us keepers.

I find the message gave me much hope as I can legally keep my Stagmomantis carolinas and many others I didn't think possible. It is much more than the simple three thought.

 

[CosbyArt]

Ah what is your message? Quoting one of my posts without a response of your own isn't adding anything to the discussion.

 

[spider_creations]

Ah what is your message? Quoting one of my posts without a response of your own isn't adding anything to the discussion.

Sorry I meant to quote you in my early reply just I little bit further up....this one

So does this mean all of our non native mantids we have to kill.....moon light mantids had a vid on this and said they are fine and you don't need a permit .....I want some more proof than just 2  people..... That at first got mixed up between SP. And one said that you can't ship even native SP. Uhg right as I get into this hobby I am getting kicked out to only native SP. Very welcoming indeed 

I also did some digging and found this 


 


Exotic animal defined
As used in ORS 609.305 (Exotic animal defined) to 609.355(Issuance of permit upon lapse of federal license or registration)and 609.992 (Penalties for ORS 609.319), exotic animal means:

(1)Any member of the family Felidae not indigenous to Oregon, except the species Felis catus (domestic cat);

(2)Any nonhuman primate;

(3)Any nonwolf member of the family Canidae not indigenous to Oregon, except the species Canis familiaris (domestic dog);

(4)Any bear, except the black bear (Ursus americanus); and

(5)Any member of the order Crocodylia. [1985 c.437 §2; 1999 c.699 §3; 2009 c.492 §1]

 

[CosbyArt]

Sorry I meant to quote you in my early reply just I little bit further up....this one

...

Okay I see it now. I'm not a lawyer or involved in anything at the state/federal level, I'm merely a mantid hobbyist myself.

In regards to the Oregon legal codes you posted none of those apply to mantids so has no concern to your hobby at the state level. As #1 is cats, #2 monkeys, #3 wolfs, #4 bears, #5 reptiles - crocodiles in particular. Not sure if you pointing out there are no laws in your state about mantids or what there.

In regards to mantids in general (at the federal level) there are no laws written either. There are regulations, and in particular importing which is covered by other federal laws, but to the mantid hobby itself it there is little to no concern. If you notice there are many sites online selling mantids, and those would be the easiest to target from a legal standpoint and have shutdown (and would be the first target as they actively supply mantids to individuals) - so in that regard I wouldn't worry as it is a 20+ year debate and not worth worrying about.

Enjoy your mantids.

 

[spider_creations]

Okay I see it now. I'm not a lawyer or involved in anything at the state/federal level, I'm merely a mantid hobbyist myself.

In regards to the Oregon legal codes you posted none of those apply to mantids so has no concern to your hobby at the state level. As #1 is cats, #2 monkeys, #3 wolfs, #4 bears, #5 reptiles - crocodiles in particular. Not sure if you pointing out there are no laws in your state about mantids or what there.

In regards to mantids in general (at the federal level) there are no laws written either. There are regulations, and in particular importing which is covered by other federal laws, but to the mantid hobby itself it there is little to no concern. If you notice there are many sites online selling mantids, and those would be the easiest to target from a legal standpoint and have shutdown (and would be the first target as they actively supply mantids to individuals) - so in that regard I wouldn't worry as it is a 20+ year debate and not worth worrying about.

Enjoy your mantids.

Okay that's a lot off my mind so I guess I will Continue keeping mantids....the lrgen thing I used as a reference but I live in arizona....anyway this thing about permits was stressing me out but when I thought about how many places sell non native mantids are insane so I think  they would have done something about it if they really did not want non native !mantids to be kept

 

[CosbyArt]

Okay that's a lot off my mind so I guess I will Continue keeping mantids....the lrgen thing I used as a reference but I live in arizona....anyway this thing about permits was stressing me out but when I thought about how many places sell non native mantids are insane so I think  they would have done something about it if they really did not want non native !mantids to be kept

Good to hear. Yeah I figure if anything happens the first thing affected would be the stores to prevent further spreading of exotics, so until then I'm not worried.

There are many points to consider if you want to contemplate the regulation aspects from the APHIS, but in all honesty it seems pointless. They seem to have a reach to create regulations as they want, much like the Homeland Security agency, to allow them to do as they please. So until they really create anything on the topic by "enforcement", everyone is in the dark, including them.

 

[spider_creations]

That's true. I feel a lot better and cant wait to get some more SP. Of mantids

 

[Jessie]

Happy to know a pet store said selling them at certian pet stores waa banned. I called around even to the police there was no law. Thanks for this post i am glad it was cleared up for me.

 

[mantisfan101]

Wait, would this include Hierodula patellifera since they are naturalized in Hawaii or does the species have to be naturalized in the continental US?

 

[The Mantis Menagerie]

It has to be naturalized in the continental US. When it comes to interstate transport of insects, Hawaii and Alaska are treated like foreign countries rather than states. 

 

[RebelleSinner]

Just a thought; the definition for ‘naturalized’ is directly tied into wether or not a species is invasive. So it stands to reason, as long as the mantid community is responsible there won’t be any reason to define a mantid, not physically coming from another country, as ‘invasive’. I would guess anything prolific enough to be remotely invasive is already considered naturalized as well and the others aren’t worth enforcing until they are

 

[mantisfan101]

That’s a good point, I forgot about that, I suppose then that the term “naturalized” would also have to involve a widespread and  or at least stable established population(Tenodera angustipennis and sinensis/aridifolia and Mantis religiosa) within the continental US.

 

[RebelleSinner]

exactly so a species that isn’t prolific enough to ever be invasive also cannot be naturalized  

 

[hysteresis]

Blacklisting species is too much work.

Instead, they whitelist.

 

[Hatsuneko]

So, has anyone gotten a permit? 

 

[The Mantis Menagerie]

I am trying to get the permits for exotic insects, but the containment facility will take a while to get approved. I applied for some permits for the native species, and they are working their way through the ePermits system. It is not very impressive, but I already have the permits for Manduca sexta and Manduca quinquemaculata.

 

[MaC]

@The Mantis Menagerie any update on this?

 

[The Mantis Menagerie]

@The Mantis Menagerie any update on this?

The permits for native species were largely successful, but I will likely not be able to move forward with a containment facility. 

This permit is somewhat obsolete after the recent deregulation, but there are still interesting millipede species on it. The most important condition on this permit is that all organisms I recieve must have been captive-bred in the US. 



This permit is mostly native beetles and exotic millipedes, but it allows me to receive individuals that were originally wild-caught. 

 

[Mantis Man13]

Oh yeah? You can’t keep exotic mantises? Then how come I have a licensed exotic pets store right where I live that sells tons of exotic reptiles, insects, scorpions, fish, and other things and its perfectly legal?