Last instar?

[Alimama]

Its my first time raising mantids and Im freaking out. I have 4 of them and I just went to check on them and 2 have just molted and sprung wings. Im attaching pictures. One is hanging and has the molt attached to one of his lets. The other is on the bottom of the cage and is laying on her side and has deformed wings and deformed rear legs! I feel so terrible. My questions: 1) Is there anytihing I can do to save the deformed one?and 2) should I help pull the molt off the normal one. 3) Is this the last instar?

 

[Alimama]

Addendum: I took the molting off the leg of the  "normal" one and it, too, has a deformity. He has 3 knees instead of one and he has been "grooming" one of the knees that has some excess tissue on it.Is there anything I should do, like cut off part f the leg? I feel awful.

 

[Chemz]

They have wings they are adults. Deformed wings alone usually don't cause problems as for the legs and what to do, I'm not sure. Since they won't molt again their legs/wings probably won't heal. There are probably some things others on the forum can tell you to help them. 

 

[River Dane]

Congratulations on two adult molts! Don’t blame yourself for the deformities. From what you’ve said, neither sounds fatal. Just be on the lookout for any signs of internal injuries. If they start to act lethargic or they start spasming that could a bad sign. You can offer them 100% pure and raw honey with water just in case.

As for your questions, 

1). There’s nothing you can do to fix these deformities. Both mantids are now adults and will not molt again, and so the damaged rear legs are not life-threatening. However, they also will no be able to fix themselves, so the injuries are permanent, but shouldn’t present any concerns.

3). Yes, this is the last instar.

As for the extra knees, do NOT cut off the leg. When your mantis dries a little more, you can try to brush off the exuviae if it’s still attached to the leg. It’s best to wait 24-48 hours after a mantis molts in order to allow them to harden off, otherwise you risk harming them.

But good luck with your new adults!

 

[Alimama]

Thank you both. I think the one with the long leg will survive but the one with the curled up wings-(parts of wings are turning black)- and its laying on its side and only moves when I move it. I think it is dying. I will see in the morning. Thanks so much, Dane and Cnemz, for your support!!!

 

[Predatorhousepet]

The one on the ground may have fallen during molting and severely injured herself. Wings turning black and laying on her side not moving means she will probably die soon. You may want to consider euthanizing her to end her suffering. 

The other one sounds like he will be ok. He will learn to function with the deformed leg or he may chew it off himself. DO NOT cut it off for him, this can introduce bacteria and cause an infection. He will take care of any excess exoskeleton left on his leg himself or it will eventually fall off on it's own. It's better not to interfere, if you try to pull the exuvia off you can accidentally hurt him in the process but you can try putting warm water on it with a Q-tip or cloth to help soften it & help it fall off.

 

[Mantis Lady]

DO NOT cut it off for him, this can introduce bacteria and cause an infection.

I have seen what it does to a mantis when it gets an infection and it is not good. Let nature do its work.

 

[Alimama]

The female I have is still laying on her side, wings shriveled up and dry. I fed her honey water which she drinks eagerly and today I fed her a small  cricket. It took quite a long time because she cannot hold the cricket herself (she tried). I have no idea if she can digest this stuff or how much to feed her.  I feel sad for her. She cannot live on her own and I feel like I should put her out of her misery.  I like the idea of euthenasia. Any suggestions for the best way. I could put her outside my house and I am sure a bird would eat her immediately.Is that cruel?

 

[Predatorhousepet]

It is of course your choice to determine if her quality of life is suffering and if it would be better to end it for her. There are several methods of euthanasia:

1. Freezer. Extreme cold will knock a mantis out rather quickly but you need to leave her in the freezer for 24 hours because there have been cases of them waking back up after only spending a couple hours in there. This is the preferred choice among most of the keepers here.

2. Crushing. Place her between 2 pieces of paper then use a heavy book to quickly, firmly and decisively crush her, it has to be hard and fast. This is a quick way to end her suffering but not everbody has the wherewithal to do it this way.

3. Carbon dioxide from dry ice. Put dry ice in a small container with a lid until it completely sublimates then place the mantis inside and replace lid. Leave her in there for at least an hour. This method is commonly used to euthanize vertebrates. I have used this method once with success for a mantis but this wiki on euthanizing invertebrates suggests that this method can possibly cause spasms and not much is known about the effectiveness. 

 

[Alimama]

It is of course your choice to determine if her quality of life is suffering and if it would be better to end it for her. There are several methods of euthanasia:

1. Freezer. Extreme cold will knock a mantis out rather quickly but you need to leave her in the freezer for 24 hours because there have been cases of them waking back up after only spending a couple hours in there. This is the preferred choice among most of the keepers here.

2. Crushing. Place her between 2 pieces of paper then use a heavy book to quickly, firmly and decisively crush her, it has to be hard and fast. This is a quick way to end her suffering but not everbody has the wherewithal to do it this way.

3. Carbon dioxide from dry ice. Put dry ice in a small container with a lid until it completely sublimates then place the mantis inside and replace lid. Leave her in there for at least an hour. This method is commonly used to euthanize vertebrates. I have used this method once with success for a mantis but this wiki on euthanizing invertebrates suggests that this method can possibly cause spasms and not much is known about the effectiveness. 

THANK YOU SO SO MUCH! I can tell you care so much about these amazing beings! I dont have the guts to do crush it so I guess I will use the freezer method. Maybe this is a stupid question,  but is there anyway to judge if she is suffering.Like  with a cat, you can tell from  their body position. I know she does not move unless I disturb her, so I feel like I am stressing her out just getting her in position to eat. I cant imagine that the quality of her life is any good if she is just lying there.If I did not intervene she would die from lack of food and water. Being that you know so much about mantises I think you might have some insight.

 

[Predatorhousepet]

Unfortunately it is hard to tell if an insect, even one as intelligent as a praying mantis, is suffering. Insects have a very different way of experiencing the world than we do, they have very simple nervous systems, how much pain and suffering they are able to process is unknown. They also don't display any specific signs like a vertebrate or mammal would. All we can really do is imagine ourselves existing in that condition and decide if we'd prefer someone put us out of our misery.

If a mantis has no hope of recovery and is slowly dying, possibly painfully, euthanasia is often the kindest option in that situation. However, in the case of non-fatal deformaties, suffering and quality of life can be hard to assess. Some owners might choose to care for a disabled mantis for the remainder of its life as long as it has a good appetite and shows a strong will to live, especially if it is a nymph and there is a chance it can heal next time it molts. However, yours is an adult, she will remain deformed & unable to move for the rest of her life. You could continue to feed and maintain her but I agree that lying on her side unable to move or do anything isn't very good quality of life. Whether she is suffering or not is unclear. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer other than it's up to you to decide if it's fair to let her continue to live in the state she is in. Euthanizing a disabled mantis is a tough choice but I am sure you will do what is best for her particular situation. 

 

[Alimama]

You are an angel. Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. You are so wise and kind!!

 

[Mantis Lady]

Unfortunately it is hard to tell if an insect, even one as intelligent as a praying mantis, is suffering. Insects have a very different way of experiencing the world than we do, they have very simple nervous systems, how much pain and suffering they are able to process is unknown. They also don't display any specific signs like a vertebrate or mammal would. 

Yeah, Thinking about that too lately. We can't look inside their heads how they are feeling.

Euthanizing a disabled mantis is a tough choice but I am sure you will do what is best for her particular situation. 

That is always a hard choice. You will know when it is time to let a mantis go....

 

[Predatorhousepet]

Thank you for the kind words. I'm sorry your female mismolted & you had to make a tough decision. Is the male still doing ok?

Not that it matters now that he is an adult and won't molt again, the fact that both mantises had trouble molting at the same time suggests the humidity in their enclosures wasn't high enough at the time. It depends on the existing humidity in the room how much misting is required but at a minimum it should be done every other day so the mantis can drink from the droplets of water. If you have below 50% humidity in your area you should increase to misting every day to keep humidity up. However, now that your male is an adult you are mainly misting to provide drinking water so a light misting every other day is sufficient.

If you decide to raise nymphs again you should get a humidity gauge to put inside their enclosure. That way you can keep an eye on the humidity levels and make sure they stay within the recommended range for that species. When you suspect a mantis is about to molt you want to keep the humidity level on the higher end of the range so they have an easier time with their molt.

 

[Alimama]

Thanks for the advice. I was misting them twice per day but I will by a humidity meter because we have central air so maybe it is dry. I have one male who seems to have molted ok and another male that will molt soon I hope. The one with the bad leg seems OK, too.  I hope to keep all 3 males as pets until I return to school in September so my students can see them.If by any chance I find a female in the wild perhaps I may try to mate her, and if I dont I will let the males go in time to mate.All that is on hold for now.

I just put my female in the freezer. Thank you for your support. It really helped.

 

[Predatorhousepet]

Glad I could help. 

If you were misting twice a day the humidity was probably on the high side, usually twice a day is too often unless it is extremely dry in your area. The humidity gauge will help you figure out how often to mist. 

 

[MantisGirl13]

Good luck with your male! I hope he lives a long, good life.

- MantisGirl13

 

[Alimama]

Thank you Mantisgirl and Predator Housepet!

 

[MantisGirl13]

Anytime! I love to help.

- MantisGirl13