Mantids of the future

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gadunka888

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Singapore lah.... then where?
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I read somewhere that cephlapods could start a civillization after man is extinct. I thought: what about mantids? They're also one of the most advanced invertibrates. this is what i think mantids will evolve into and live like in the future ( 5 million years later)

They would live in a colony in a nest constucted out of the ootheca foam( produced by the female mantids ) on a tree. there would be one breeding female ( the queen), the ''king'' ( fertillise the ''queen'') sterile females ( workers) and sterile males ( warriors). most of them would be 50cm ( two feet) tall.

female

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male

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The females eat prey, digest it, and regurgitate ( vomit ) the food when they return to the nest to feed the queen, king or nymphs. The warriors guard the nest and they have poisonous saliva ( from the prey they eat). Of course, they won't cannibalize each other.

 
If mantids start breeding with wasps next to a radioactive spill, your vision could become a reality :lol:

 
One problem with that is that mantids cannot get much bigger than they are now (nor can any other insects, really) because if they were that large, their insides would be too heavy when they molted and would fall out.

 
Matticus said:
One problem with that is that mantids cannot get much bigger than they are now (nor can any other insects, really) because if they were that large, their insides would be too heavy when they molted and would fall out.
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:huh: The problem with that idea is that prehistoric insect fossils are often much, much larger. To my knowledge, their insides did not fall out. :lol: :D

 
kamakiri said:
:huh: The problem with that idea is that prehistoric insect fossils are often much, much larger. To my knowledge, their insides did not fall out. :lol: :D
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Not so much. The largest species of insect ever found fossilized has been a species of butterfly, which clocks in at ~18 in. in length. Length, of course, is not the problem with heavy insides (if it were, some species of phasmids, of which the longest specimen ever found was 22 in., would be screwed). The problem is that if, say, a praying mantis were to grow proportionally, it would be so fat and heavy that its insides would indeed fall out. The other limiting factor to insect growth is their system of oxygen distribution, which works wonderfully... for small creatures. Not so well for bigger ones.

"Much, much larger" was a bit of exaggeration, unless you were speaking of Arthropods in general and not just Insecta. That, of course, would include aquatic Chelicerata, specifically Eurypterida, whose fossils have been found at 6-8 feet. The difference there is, of course, that the pressure from the ocean would prevent their insides from becoming outsides, and that early oceans are theorized to have had extremely high oxygen content, making oxygen distribution much easier.

But back to mantids. Mantids are fat, as insects go, and for one to be 5' tall, for example, its abdomen would have to be at least 6" wide (probably more, especially in females). That's likely unsupportable even for hardened cuticle, much less for soft, freshly molted new cuticle. 12" would even be a stretch for a mantid, due to oxygen and other issues.

 
Matticus said:
Not so much. The largest species of insect ever found fossilized has been a species of butterfly, which clocks in at ~18 in. in length. Length, of course, is not the problem with heavy insides (if it were, some species of phasmids, of which the longest specimen ever found was 22 in., would be screwed). The problem is that if, say, a praying mantis were to grow proportionally, it would be so fat and heavy that its insides would indeed fall out. The other limiting factor to insect growth is their system of oxygen distribution, which works wonderfully... for small creatures. Not so well for bigger ones."Much, much larger" was a bit of exaggeration, unless you were speaking of Arthropods in general and not just Insecta. That, of course, would include aquatic Chelicerata, specifically Eurypterida, whose fossils have been found at 6-8 feet. The difference there is, of course, that the pressure from the ocean would prevent their insides from becoming outsides, and that early oceans are theorized to have had extremely high oxygen content, making oxygen distribution much easier.

But back to mantids. Mantids are fat, as insects go, and for one to be 5' tall, for example, its abdomen would have to be at least 6" wide (probably more, especially in females). That's likely unsupportable even for hardened cuticle, much less for soft, freshly molted new cuticle. 12" would even be a stretch for a mantid, due to oxygen and other issues.
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You've obviously convinced yourself that you are right. Indeed, the insides would fall out. :rolleyes: And welcome to last week already.

 
lol funny thread. My memory is terrible, but a few years I was posting on a cryptozoology thread regarding giant spiders. And the insides rupturing/falling out is the exact response that the thread got.

Something about how the atmosphere back then was different, and maybe I did pay attention - and maybe my memory is no good anymore, because that's the only little bit I can recall.

Giant spiders, no. Giant mantises? I would like to meet one.

Would be really cool to get them wearing long trench coats, or even suits and ties.

 
This is not realistic.

Mantids are Dictyopterans, together with roaches and termites. And termites have already evolved eusocialty, so if there is any member of this clade close to become more advanced in terms of collective intelligence, it's the termites. Mantids, if they survive the Anthropocene, will still remain predators as we know them. Some colonization of, and adaptation to, new habitats, will be likely, though, maybe also an increase in size to 20-30 cm, but only after the next glaciation period has gone and temps are more favorable.

 
Christian said:
This is not realistic. Mantids are Dictyopterans, together with roaches and termites. And termites have already evolved eusocialty, so if there is any member of this clade close to become more advanced in terms of collective intelligence, it's the termites. Mantids, if they survive the Anthropocene, will still remain predators as we know them. Some colonization of, and adaptation to, new habitats, will be likely, though, maybe also an increase in size to 20-30 cm, but only after the next glaciation period has gone and temps are more favorable.
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Don't forget the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere - it affects the size as well. I wonder if it could make them bumby body parts bigger... hmmm, niiiice!

 
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Duhh mantises are already that big have you never seen Zorak from Space Ghost! (giant mantis from signature below).

Now on a serious matter the whole being to heavy thing doesnt quite add up to me because there insides wouldnt grow sepratly they would grow proportionatly meaning that there bodys at that size would be supporting the same amount of weight as they are now. meaning that there intestines would fall out now at there normal size which they dont. so if your theory is correct the existence of mantids is physically impossible, which we all know isnt, sorry to burst your bubble but i dont think your theory makes any bit of sense please try to prove me wrong! haha on the origional post that would be awesome yet scarry and for it to happen id have to agree with the wasp radioactive powerplant theory.... :blink: ahhhhhh mantids that can fly for long periods and have stingers!!!! Also, i mean hey look at mantispidae theres kinda what it would look like though they are part of the lacewing family.

 
Kruszakus said:
Don't forget the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere - it affects the size as well. I wonder if it could make them bumby body parts bigger... hmmm, niiiice!
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[SIZE=14pt]I was seening if any1 was going to say anything about the O2 and a the buggers size, and them when is this going to happen & by then what is our sun doing as in did it change yet? now think about it what are the light leves and what kind of plants live and then what is then air made up of what kind of planet is it there?[/SIZE]

 
[SIZE=14pt]I was seening if any1 was going to say anything about the O2 and a the buggers size, and them when is this going to happen & by then what is our sun doing as in did it change yet? now think about it what are the light leves and what kind of plants live and then what is then air made up of what kind of planet is it there?[/SIZE]
 
Orin said:
You know the termites are now considered cockroaches?
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It's always controversial reclassifying an organism. I don't think the entire entomological world accepts this. I know that cockroaches & termites are closely related but I think they deserve their own order.

 

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