nasty bugger
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nasty bugger
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I stayed up late last night making up 10 ff cultures, and 6 new houses for mantis'.
I use only the melanogaster flightless at this point in time. Culture I used from was started on 12/05 and purchased from the reptile center in mesa. It was a very active culture.
They were kept on the top shelf, about a foot below the cieling, and my temp this morning/afternoon when I woke up was 78 degrees at 4 foot off the floor.
I used new 32 oz deli cups with coffee filters held on with the cup lids, no glue material.
No coffee filter inside for the flies to sit on.
I awoke and checked my cultures and noted that some had a pretty high mortality rate.
The one's that seem to have the high mortality were one's that I'd mixed yeast and orange juice into the media itself. I had also sprinkled sugar and yeast on top of these, but others I sprinkled with the yeast and sugar didn't have the mortality rates near like the OJ and yeast-in-the media one's.
I don't know if it was the extra yeast, or if the oj just seems to disagree, or maybe causes them to stick to the surface of the media and die, but there it is. Should put some potato flakes on top of this mess and see if I put more flies in if they do well, by not sticking to the top of the culture, if that is the problem. I suspect the oj may have something to do with the problem though, and after the top flakes are used up there may be issues, but that's something to check out.
My most successful cultures were just plain old mash potatoes, with a bit of applesauce in some of them. The other successfullest had mashed potato, protein powder (whey and soy), and molasses.
I use molasses in my garden feed, so I figure it would also put food into the culture, as well as 'dye' the culture so the maggots are easier to spot.
I might shoulda added the coffee filters in last night, but thought the sticky I read said not to add them till larvae/pupae was seen, but I believe I'll add them with/prior to the flies next time, if I try these mixes again, doubtful I try them again though, but I may get bored.
Maybe they're all just laying around drunk in the 'added yeast/OJ' cultures I'll have a bunch of drunk mantis' if I feed them these one's I'll have to set up a mantis bar and charge for the drunk flies... There'll be mantis' on the street begging for bus fare...
I tried adding balsamic vinegar, thinking the stink would get the flies feeling at home, as well as keeping mold down, as well as be a contrast dye, but it also had the oj/yeast mix in it, as well as the higher mortality rate, so it didn't get a good test yet. I'll have to try the balsamic with just plain potatoes, and another cup with potatoes and protein mix to see how they differ.
I'm wondering if the extra yeast was too much, or the OJ, and may have to experiment with that a bit.
ALSO they arent just dead in the low area's, they are laying dead/dormant on some of the high area's also, so I doubt it's drowning, since my media isn't soupy either.
They do seem to flock to the low area's though.
In short, I think I'll stick with the potatoes, and maybe the masa applesauce culture medias. I may add protein mix, and molasses to them though.
I use only the melanogaster flightless at this point in time. Culture I used from was started on 12/05 and purchased from the reptile center in mesa. It was a very active culture.
They were kept on the top shelf, about a foot below the cieling, and my temp this morning/afternoon when I woke up was 78 degrees at 4 foot off the floor.
I used new 32 oz deli cups with coffee filters held on with the cup lids, no glue material.
No coffee filter inside for the flies to sit on.
I awoke and checked my cultures and noted that some had a pretty high mortality rate.
The one's that seem to have the high mortality were one's that I'd mixed yeast and orange juice into the media itself. I had also sprinkled sugar and yeast on top of these, but others I sprinkled with the yeast and sugar didn't have the mortality rates near like the OJ and yeast-in-the media one's.
I don't know if it was the extra yeast, or if the oj just seems to disagree, or maybe causes them to stick to the surface of the media and die, but there it is. Should put some potato flakes on top of this mess and see if I put more flies in if they do well, by not sticking to the top of the culture, if that is the problem. I suspect the oj may have something to do with the problem though, and after the top flakes are used up there may be issues, but that's something to check out.
My most successful cultures were just plain old mash potatoes, with a bit of applesauce in some of them. The other successfullest had mashed potato, protein powder (whey and soy), and molasses.
I use molasses in my garden feed, so I figure it would also put food into the culture, as well as 'dye' the culture so the maggots are easier to spot.
I might shoulda added the coffee filters in last night, but thought the sticky I read said not to add them till larvae/pupae was seen, but I believe I'll add them with/prior to the flies next time, if I try these mixes again, doubtful I try them again though, but I may get bored.
Maybe they're all just laying around drunk in the 'added yeast/OJ' cultures I'll have a bunch of drunk mantis' if I feed them these one's I'll have to set up a mantis bar and charge for the drunk flies... There'll be mantis' on the street begging for bus fare...
I tried adding balsamic vinegar, thinking the stink would get the flies feeling at home, as well as keeping mold down, as well as be a contrast dye, but it also had the oj/yeast mix in it, as well as the higher mortality rate, so it didn't get a good test yet. I'll have to try the balsamic with just plain potatoes, and another cup with potatoes and protein mix to see how they differ.
I'm wondering if the extra yeast was too much, or the OJ, and may have to experiment with that a bit.
ALSO they arent just dead in the low area's, they are laying dead/dormant on some of the high area's also, so I doubt it's drowning, since my media isn't soupy either.
They do seem to flock to the low area's though.
In short, I think I'll stick with the potatoes, and maybe the masa applesauce culture medias. I may add protein mix, and molasses to them though.
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If you can afford it buy commercially made medium. That way there is no guesswork and no smell or other issues. Just a pinch of yeast, water and you're done. Also contains mold inhibitor. A large bag lasts me forever. I also only put a small amount of excelsior. Some people cram it full of that stuff or other stuff. It's just no needed.
we have a nice long post on here for fruit fly mixes. Try it. The flies also could of been near the end of their life span when u got them, don't blame what u did before u know which it was.
nasty bugger
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Reason I firure it was the media is that the other cultures, potato and various other components, and the other one's that didn't have the oj and extra yeast in them, did much better, and used the same flies as the high mortality one's did. \ I don't feel bad about it, I'm just trying to figure out a way to correct for this.
Rick, reason I want to make my own is cause not only is money tight right now, but future wise I plan to move to an area that is somewhat remote, much more than where I live now, and want to be able to adapt if something happens and my food supply runs short, and it's snowing like crazy outside, and etc those unexpected delays, that may take days or weeks to overcome. I like to know how to adapt to any circumstance, and be successful.
Where do you get your media from?
I've not researched, but since I'm into worms also I've seen it on one of the worm sites, but a quart jar wouldn't last me as long as I think it would, or would it...
I've read several posts on the media, thanks. That's where alot of my idea's came from.
After reading Orin's article on media and raising ff's I went and got the protein powder, and later I wondered what would happen if I used egg white in the media for protein? I may try that next time, since I plant to own chickens when I get my ranch, if it ever happens.
I looked at Mantis Place last night. Got some neat stuff on there. I may be placing an order one day, when things get paid up a bit better.
Rick, reason I want to make my own is cause not only is money tight right now, but future wise I plan to move to an area that is somewhat remote, much more than where I live now, and want to be able to adapt if something happens and my food supply runs short, and it's snowing like crazy outside, and etc those unexpected delays, that may take days or weeks to overcome. I like to know how to adapt to any circumstance, and be successful.
Where do you get your media from?
I've not researched, but since I'm into worms also I've seen it on one of the worm sites, but a quart jar wouldn't last me as long as I think it would, or would it...
I've read several posts on the media, thanks. That's where alot of my idea's came from.
After reading Orin's article on media and raising ff's I went and got the protein powder, and later I wondered what would happen if I used egg white in the media for protein? I may try that next time, since I plant to own chickens when I get my ranch, if it ever happens.
I looked at Mantis Place last night. Got some neat stuff on there. I may be placing an order one day, when things get paid up a bit better.
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That is why I said if you can afford to buy it it. There may be some homemade mixes out there that work but some people put some crazy stuff into their media. I get mine from carolina.com. It doesn't cost too much and lasts me a long time even when I was at the peak of my fruit fly breeding days.
Like the prepared media (the ones I've seen are almost entirely potato flakes anyway) potato flakes may take some getting used to adding the right amount of water since airflow and humidity affect drying out and too sloppy or too dry media is more important than the exact media. Protein powder is something else.
Fruit flies are deficient in some amino acids which is the reason for the protein powder, it might even make fruit flies an acceptable food for young tarantulas (if fed only fruit flies, tarantulas get deformed legs and grow poorly). How much protien is retained in the adult fly is the question but the deficiency is also why some types of mantids do poorly on fruit flies.
Fruit flies are deficient in some amino acids which is the reason for the protein powder, it might even make fruit flies an acceptable food for young tarantulas (if fed only fruit flies, tarantulas get deformed legs and grow poorly). How much protien is retained in the adult fly is the question but the deficiency is also why some types of mantids do poorly on fruit flies.
Good to know, so if I use a high protien mix, I should be ok?It's a great theory but it may or may not work that well in practice.
Well my new mixes have high quanity of protein, and the flies are getting big and fat and many maggots. I almost am unhappy with it, cause I have to keep making more cultures to keep them going, they eat thru the culture in no time at all, they are overrunning my room. I must have 75 going at any one time and they just keep multiplying, it is either feast or famine here. I just don't get it,. I either have to many of something or not enough! :angry: I am trying to put it on my web site, but don't have the time.........trying to make a new site too...... :mellow:
nasty bugger
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My potato mixes that were the best are now drying pretty good, too good. My humidity right now, at 7:30 prm is 20%, and it varies during the day, but rarely ever tops 30%.
I'd kick the humidifier on, but it got up to 87 degrees in here today, 71 degrees outside today, not too bad
About 85 degrees in here now, since the garden grow lights kicked on. Humidity at that temp is uncomfortable, for an Arizona native I try to mist, but with the fruit flies I worry about drowning them.
I just made three more cultures, applesauce and masa with lemon juice and honey and molasses, with potato on top, and a sprinkle of yeast. I'll put the drying cultures flies in there and moisten the the older one's, and hope they are better. I'd put them in a bed room and do that, but my bedrooms are on the north side of the place and are much colder than the south side kitchen and living room, Plus I use one bedroom for me, and the other for my worms, that have to stay cool, and shelves of parts for my business.
My other day old cultures came back to life, fly wise, but the flies in the low area seem to be dead there. I guess the others were just 'borachos' Only one culture seems to have all but two flies dead, but I'll toss some potato flakes in and see if they are recoverable.
I check out that site Rick. Thanks for the info.
I'd kick the humidifier on, but it got up to 87 degrees in here today, 71 degrees outside today, not too bad
About 85 degrees in here now, since the garden grow lights kicked on. Humidity at that temp is uncomfortable, for an Arizona native
I try to mist, but with the fruit flies I worry about drowning them.I just made three more cultures, applesauce and masa with lemon juice and honey and molasses, with potato on top, and a sprinkle of yeast. I'll put the drying cultures flies in there and moisten the the older one's, and hope they are better. I'd put them in a bed room and do that, but my bedrooms are on the north side of the place and are much colder than the south side kitchen and living room, Plus I use one bedroom for me, and the other for my worms, that have to stay cool, and shelves of parts for my business.
My other day old cultures came back to life, fly wise, but the flies in the low area seem to be dead there. I guess the others were just 'borachos'
Only one culture seems to have all but two flies dead, but I'll toss some potato flakes in and see if they are recoverable.I check out that site Rick. Thanks for the info.
kamakiri
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Well, thanks for this thread...got me motivated enough to restart some hydei cultures. Mostly with the media as in Rebecca's recipe from earlier in the year, plus yeast sprinkled on top. Also trying some of the cultures in smaller containers and some reducing the number of starter flies...these would be just to maintain a population for future cultures, not for feeding. Also trying one culture where the files are introduced in inter-generational steps, to see if I can get more consistent production through the life of a single container...instead of the typical culture where the supply surges as the generations mature.
One more new thing I'm trying is feeding the flies before they are fed to the mantises. Not for gut loading per se, but to keep them alive longer in the mantis enclosures. I've had too many die after day 2...necessitating a 3 day feed cycle or less. I'd rather push 4 or 5 days if possible.
One more new thing I'm trying is feeding the flies before they are fed to the mantises. Not for gut loading per se, but to keep them alive longer in the mantis enclosures. I've had too many die after day 2...necessitating a 3 day feed cycle or less. I'd rather push 4 or 5 days if possible.
If the ventilation isn't minimal or excessive on the mantis cage, you can put a tiny apple slice in the cage to keep the fruit flies alive for a week or two.
kamakiri
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Thanks, Orin. I'll have to try that in the mantis enclosures. I have used applesauce and FF media on the end of a toothpick held in the feeding plug with good results. It would be just as easy to try a slice of apple on the toothpick.
nasty bugger
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UPDATE-
The cultures that have oj and extra yeast in them, that seemed to be not producing, are kicking some major a.., and there are maggots all over the side of the containers.
The one's that I note that have the most sign if new life overall though, are the one's with honey and molasses in them. They are lively little cultures.
I don't know if it's one or the other, or just both together, but the molasses seems to make a good difference, as well as the honey.
I think I'll try more molasses in the next culture, to see if it helps, and as more of a contrast.
I think I'll try some jaegermeister in there too, since I went by my old place and picked up a bottle that I've had for about 11 years now. Should be nice and aged, if that makes a difference, in the human consumption
The cultures that have oj and extra yeast in them, that seemed to be not producing, are kicking some major a.., and there are maggots all over the side of the containers.
The one's that I note that have the most sign if new life overall though, are the one's with honey and molasses in them. They are lively little cultures.
I don't know if it's one or the other, or just both together, but the molasses seems to make a good difference, as well as the honey.
I think I'll try more molasses in the next culture, to see if it helps, and as more of a contrast.
I think I'll try some jaegermeister in there too, since I went by my old place and picked up a bottle that I've had for about 11 years now. Should be nice and aged, if that makes a difference, in the human consumption
u dear person drink the yagar and leave the ffs to the honey
nasty bugger
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If I thought my ff's were drunk off the oj, yeast and honey culture, well...
I used to be in a homebrew club, in arkansas, and we had a contest and someone brought a honey mead from kansas city. I will tell you, I was impressed. It was so warming and smooth, but with a feeling like you could light the warm fumes that came out of your mouth when you'd breath. Lovely . It's not just for fruitflies
I'd like some more of that honey beverage, and I'm not much of a drinker B)
He won a gold medal with that batch at an international competition.
Waiting to see how the cultures I did a couple days after these do. I bet they'll be dandy.
I used to be in a homebrew club, in arkansas, and we had a contest and someone brought a honey mead from kansas city. I will tell you, I was impressed. It was so warming and smooth, but with a feeling like you could light the warm fumes that came out of your mouth when you'd breath. Lovely . It's not just for fruitflies
I'd like some more of that honey beverage, and I'm not much of a drinker B)
He won a gold medal with that batch at an international competition.
Waiting to see how the cultures I did a couple days after these do. I bet they'll be dandy.
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kamakiri
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Okay, so the cultures I started on 12/30 aren't doing well. I probably mixed too much yeast *into* the media. bubbles, bubbles and more bubbles. :angry: Made more on 1/1 with yeast only on the top, and they look normal. Still no maggots that I can see, but I know it's still early for the later batch.
bubbles, bubbles and more bubbles. :angry: Made more on 1/1 with yeast only on the top, and they look normal. Still no maggots that I can see, but I know it's still early for the later batch.
