Phil's Dogfood medium

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PeterF

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I have to state first that I work on this between real experiments.

My measurements are in exact, and I record no data, I don't even know the dates these things have been run.

Because insects are not animals I work in the Plant Science building. But the field jeep is parked on the other side of the Animal Science building. During the whole month of Oct every time I walked by the dumpster at the Animal Science building I noted the large swarm of flies (the area around the Animal Science building had smelled like a tannery since late Aug).

During this whole time Phil's and others' ideas for breeding house flies ran through my head. Eventually I collected a bunch and set out.

I actually collected flies on 3 occasions, over two weeks. So most of the first batch was still alive when the 3rd batch was added. I did not feed or water these flies other than a small bit of honey sometimes.

The medium was made by boiling water in the microwave, adding dogfood and the microwaving it again. Then I stirred in some flaxseed oil and sprinkled yeast on top. This was done in a small batch - a container of about 4 oz. I actually botched the microwaving part a number of times because the container was small and boiled over - yuk.

The maggots took a while, but they were there. Eventually I transferred this, with more wet dog food (less the other ingredients) to a quart canning jar (I use a lot of canning jars) capped with a filter paper (this was a mistake, mesh is better).

It developed well enough, never molded, and produced many pupae. I collected them one sunday, returning the rest of the maggots and food back to the jar. But while there were many maggots remaining, they never produced any more pupae. I believe this is because the filter paper did not breath well enough, and once I collect the pupae I ignored the jar. I believe that because I was previously opening it daily the anaerobic gases were not building up as much.

I have since been working with the flies that have come from that first round. I do not know if there are multiple species of black house fly involved. There are certainly some green flies and a few other odd balls. The green ones have been some of the last to emerge.

This time I have been feeding (sugar and protein powder), watering (wet paper towel- twice daily), and giving honey. Still, the flies only seem to live about 2 weeks. I just started my 4th jar of dog food medium.

The first two were as above except starting right with the jar and a larger volume. I have to take these apart this weekend - but no maggots have been spotted. These two jars are also somewhat moldy.

The third (and now 4th) jar include a fistful of bark mulch as Phil suggested. They also have been constantly on heat pads. There is a heat pad under the fly cage that the jar sits on, and there is a heat pad on the top shelf where the maggot rearing happens. Both produced some mold, but have also produced maggots quite well, who seem to be reducing the mold. The third jar is already producing pupae.

There is a stick in the jar when it is in the fly cage for better access.

I put a balled up piece of wax paper in the jar when it goes to the top shelf for the maggots to climb if they have a problem. I fold up the bottom of the paper loosely, then I twist the paper loosely. The very first batch had many many in that pocket and easy to collect. However, I did have to dismantle the medium to get at more than 25% of them who were not in the wax paper or easy to spill out by over turning the jar.

That is my lazily execution of Phil's Dogfood/Housefly culture. I consider it a success. I am not convinced of a need for methyparaben. But will have to see how further generations go in regards to the mold.

 
So is it that easy? Boiled water, flaxseed oil, dog food, and yeast? I'll definitely try on a small scale. Did you use wet dog food or dry? I have a bunch of dry dog food. (It has lots of vitamins in it, and salmon which makes it smell fishy)

 
Dry food, a mid range protein level (not the super high protein stuff Phil recommends only because this is what I had on hand for roaches). I don't know that6 the flaxseed oil is useful. Phil mentioned it in one post, but I think he dropped it in a later post. I only use it because I bought it.

From what I have read elsewhere, the selection of dogfood type will effect the smelliness. I would be suspicious of fishy things in that regard.

Also, the lab has a fairly good air circulation system (now that I have cleaned the intakes). I suspect a closed house might get more smell. We can't all have the windows open all year like Phil [/wink]. But the smell I get out of the free to breath ones is just a dog food smell. Could be worse. It is certainly a lot better than the rotting bug smell from when we counted yellow jacket traps.

 
So...where do you get the bark mulch? I tried using Sani-chips, but I think it's too small. Would a coarse-cut coco-fiber work? (I have some of that!)

I really need to get a mesh enclosure, I guess!

 
We had a bag of mulch substrate laying around. I used that. I haven't been using it in the cages, so it seemed good to have it used for something.

As for the mesh enclosure:

I have been using sweet sweet mesh cages that we got from Bioquip, for, you know, real bug experiments. But given that in the spring I will have to give them up for those real experiments I was thinking it would be easy to take a plastic tub, cut large holes, glue on screen and make a sock type access for normal handling and vacuum access.

On the other hand, one of the things I read about fly rearing used 10 gallon tanks with panty hose over the top. One leg was tied near the crotch, and the other leg had it's foot cut off. This footless leg could be used for access to the tank, and tied off for security, plus the panty hose should give plenty of ventilation to the tank.

Plus it's cheap and easy to replace.

Of course, it looks embarrassing. But for most people, it is only the mantids that are going to laugh at us.

Here's the bioquip stuff:

http://www.bioquip.com/Search/WebCatalog.asp?category=2850&prodtype=1

Here's the page about pantyhose on tanks:

http://www.jangala.co.uk/Curly%20winged%20fly%20culture%20webpage.htm

That's good reading if you plan to rear flies. I am not sure I will try his bad milk method, but it is worth thinking about.

 
I think the oil is just to help keep it moist? I tried a similar method and got alot of pupae but none hatched to flies. I think a small amount of mold did them in.

 
Further update.

The last of the 1st generation of flies went to the ghosts today (unless some more of the pupae emerge, but I doubt it).

The 1st of the second generation should be emerging soon.

This weekend I tore apart the first three pots from this generation.

The first two, which had molded, had nothing in them, neither fly nor maggot. The third pot (first with mulch), which was slightly molded had about 15 pupae and nothing else.

The 4th pot (second with mulch), which had just come out of the fly tank Wed has tons of huge maggots, a very few pupae already and I have not taken it apart, waiting for more pupation. The 5th pot, which just went in with the flies on Wed is showing huge maggots and was also removed, I added more dog food to this pot, but the maggots pupated on top of the old food and are not quite covered, but some what restricted by the new food. i do not know why they did not climb the new food to pupate.

I started a new pot, to have it ready for the new flies when they emerge. But that might have been a bad idea. It may mold before they are ready.

Also, based on the first 2 pots not producing anything, I suspect it has partly to do with giving the medium to the flies before they are ready to lay. This is supported by the small number in the third pot.

On the other hand, some were dying off before the 3rd pot was even removed, so I am uncertain about sufficient sexual age.

There are some huge flies around the building. About the size of the last digit of my pinky finger. I can't seem to keep one alive before I find another. But if they are breed-able, they would be sweet.

 
Oh, and I am worrying that my mediums are not wet enough (mold issue aside). Which I would correct if I knew how much water I had used in any of them, Ha!

 
I think the oil is just to help keep it moist? I tried a similar method and got alot of pupae but none hatched to flies. I think a small amount of mold did them in.
Chuck uses it to provide Omega fatty acids. I have seen no indication in HF dietary studies to support ts use, but Chuck is a commercial HF vendor! Makes you wonder, dunnit?

 
So, can't you use a small amount of methylparaben to suppress mold? I used this in my last attempt and it seemed to work well for preventing mold, but...still no pupae for me!

 
Oh, and I am worrying that my mediums are not wet enough (mold issue aside). Which I would correct if I knew how much water I had used in any of them, Ha!
Congratulations on your efforts Peter, and thanks for reporting them. You mention "real experiments" to be performed as part of your course work, I presume, but you don't need linear regressions, Pearson/Spearman correlations, Chi squares (heaven forefend!), null hypotheses, and elegant experimental designs to do real experiments, just keep accurate records and know how to interpret them. (That makes me sound terribly old, doesn't it? :D )

I am using a dry material to water ratio of about 2:3, but i am grinding the dog food, which will make a difference to the weight:volume ratio (i.e. a cup of ground food will weigh more than a cup of the food in its original form. I find that this works well with my rather dry atmosphere -- right now my bug room's RH is <15 -- I find that aside from any (unproven by me) oxygenation or nutritional advantages, the wood chips form a layer on top of the food that helps keep the rest of the medium moist, though by the time the last maggots are ready to pupate, the mash has assumed an almost dry, sand-like appearance. Of course, if your medium is drying out too quickly, there is no law against adding water with either a cup or an atomizer.

I have seen that houseflies start to copulate about two days after ecdysis, and that seems to be true for BBs as well.. It should not be necessary to keep the medium in the cage for more than a week or so. If you leave it in for two weeks, there is a danger that the oldest pupae will be ready to eclose and you will also have a longer time range for ecdysis that might or might not be a good thing, depending on your needs

I have tried a device using course mesh suspended 1/4" above the bottom of the pot so that the maggots can crawl to the bottom to pupate,but it hasn't worked for me; I find that dumping the whole mess in water so that the pupae float to the top works best. Has anyone a better idea?

I started culturing BBs on August 28th , three calender months ago, and the original culture is going well with hatches so large that the flies from 1 pot blacken a 12" cube. Good!

 
"though by the time the last maggots are ready to pupate, the mash has assumed an almost dry, sand-like appearance. "

Phil, is it just an appearance, or is the consistency sand like as well? my maintains the cowpie like consistency with the unfortunate fact that there are no centipedes or scorpions under it.

I have also noticed that for the most part the dog food pellets retain their shape. Some of the outer coating makes a mud with the water, but for the most part the food is solid balls. It is possible that this should concern me, and that the maggots are only eating the muddy part.

Not sure how much I fancy the notion of an added step of grinding the dog food though.

 
I know what you mean, Peter. I used to wrap the stuff up and hit it with a mallet, What a mess! I suggest that you boil the cat/dog food in twice its volume of water and then let it steep over night. If it isn't completely mushed by then, use a potato masher; the maggots aren't going to eat lumps of dog food.

When the maggots have finished eating, the medium has been digested and the "soil" is maggot shist, very similar to what an earthworm leaves behind. Given its color, "loam" is probably more descriptive than "sand", and yes, that describes the consistency, as well.

 

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