phyllocrania paradoxa molts to adult

[sally]

Really long wings and antennae

 

[SilentDeviL]

Congratz Sally .

Don't let the Canadian Mike see this Pic or His ganna think u treat ur Mantis Poorly by giving them so little Space lol. A single Ghost should live in a 10L container so they have room to run around when they hardly move =.=" lol

 

[Bug Trader]

I think one day we need to get into the ethics of how we keep our mantids........For those of you who think smaller is better I have to ask why? Is it so you can have more? Is this based on you having a pet, being a breeder or a business? Because when you start accpeting the bare minimal for how to keep your mantid when does it become more about you than whats best for the mantis?

I hear things like smaller cages allow me to keep and breed more, My question is why? Because its not for the mantids best interest. You claim keeping them in smaller cages allows you to breed more to keep them in the hobby, well if everyone worked together to educate new hobbyists we wouldnt have this issue. There would be more people keeping and breeding them there for allowing you to scale back but is that really what you want or do you want to pack them in like sardines and boost you own ego on species count while trying to make a buck?

How in the world we live in with humane laws against packing dogs and other pets into small crates would you fault someone for wanting to do more than a ff cup for housing? You ever think the mantids just hang there because they have no other options? Because most of my species roam their cages throughout the day.

 

[Malakyoma]

Congratz Sally .

Don't let the Canadian Mike see this Pic or His ganna think u treat ur Mantis Poorly by giving them so little Space lol. A single Ghost should live in a 10L container so they have room to run around when they hardly move =.=" lol

I think one day we need to get into the ethics of how we keep our mantids........For those of you who think smaller is better I have to ask why? Is it so you can have more? Is this based on you having a pet, being a breeder or a business? Because when you start accpeting the bare minimal for how to keep your mantid when does it become more about you than whats best for the mantis?

I hear things like smaller cages allow me to keep and breed more, My question is why? Because its not for the mantids best interest. You claim keeping them in smaller cages allows you to breed more to keep them in the hobby, well if everyone worked together to educate new hobbyists we wouldnt have this issue. There would be more people keeping and breeding them there for allowing you to scale back but is that really what you want or do you want to pack them in like sardines and boost you own ego on species count while trying to make a buck?

How in the world we live in with humane laws against packing dogs and other pets into small crates would you fault someone for wanting to do more than a ff cup for housing? You ever think the mantids just hang there because they have no other options? Because most of my species roam their cages throughout the day.

I give all of my mantids plenty of room to move and you know what they do? They move. My bugs never ever sit still, always exploring and always looking for a roaming beetle or a new place to hang around. You dont give them a small enclosure because they dont move, they dont move because you give them a small enclosure. Cramming them in a tiny enclosure like that is not taking care of the mantis, its taking care of your wallet and your "look how many bugs I have!" ego.

A GOOD breeder would have 75 bugs well cared for with plenty of room instead of 300 crammed into tiny little cups where they can't even open their wings. Only a person looking to make money off of mantids would keep them in something so incredibly small. People like that dont care about the mantids at all, and they aren't true hobbyists.

I mean just look at the cups in this picture, from your most recent update. They're MAYBE 2x the height of the mantis, there's no furniture at all, no plants to climb on, not even paper towel as a substrate. All they have is a prison cell with some screen on the wall. How can you possibly say this is good for the mantis, and not just good for your ego?

 

[SilentDeviL]

I think one day we need to get into the ethics of how we keep our mantids........For those of you who think smaller is better I have to ask why? Is it so you can have more? Is this based on you having a pet, being a breeder or a business? Because when you start accpeting the bare minimal for how to keep your mantid when does it become more about you than whats best for the mantis?

I hear things like smaller cages allow me to keep and breed more, My question is why? Because its not for the mantids best interest. You claim keeping them in smaller cages allows you to breed more to keep them in the hobby, well if everyone worked together to educate new hobbyists we wouldnt have this issue. There would be more people keeping and breeding them there for allowing you to scale back but is that really what you want or do you want to pack them in like sardines and boost you own ego on species count while trying to make a buck?

How in the world we live in with humane laws against packing dogs and other pets into small crates would you fault someone for wanting to do more than a ff cup for housing? You ever think the mantids just hang there because they have no other options? Because most of my species roam their cages throughout the day.

Trust me is not for the $ If I was in the US maybe, what ever I sell is just to get my Feeder cost back . most of the time I don't . My goal is challenge different species then move on.

I give all of my mantids plenty of room to move and you know what they do? They move. My bugs never ever sit still, always exploring and always looking for a roaming beetle or a new place to hang around. You dont give them a small enclosure because they dont move, they dont move because you give them a small enclosure. Cramming them in a tiny enclosure like that is not taking care of the mantis, its taking care of your wallet and your "look how many bugs I have!" ego.

A GOOD breeder would have 75 bugs well cared for with plenty of room instead of 300 crammed into tiny little cups where they can't even open their wings. Only a person looking to make money off of mantids would keep them in something so incredibly small. People like that dont care about the mantids at all, and they aren't true hobbyists.

As for you I don't even care what u think after I found out u talk behind my back on Chat. If u have an Issue take it up with me not behind my back . As for Money If u think all I do is for Money then u r wrong my friend ... How much money can u really make on Mantis and how much time u need to spend a day just caring for them ? I have a family a wife and 2 Kids not like u 24/7 on mantis I have my way keeping them and I have my challenge that I want to accomplish with them. You may not agreed with my Style keeping them, but sure is not ur call to even say I'm a true hobbyists or not .

 

[aychen222]

Whoa whoa whoa, I know Sally cares very much for her mantids. The container may be small, but I guarantee that after all this, Sally will probably give that ghost more room than he can handle.

 

[Bug Trader]

I did not claim you were in it to make a buck Albert, I said some are.....We all have our reasons for why and how we keep them I just think its about time we try and set some type of hobby standard. Its time to teach and lead by example or this hobby will forever remain small and a mess. So many walk away after a fail or two with raising, even trying to breed and in some cases housing is the issue. We know this.

And Sally my response was NOT based on your housing choice, it was based on whether or not we really have the right to down someones simple want for more than the bare minimal conditions, it shouldn't be joked about it leaves new hobbyist on a path where they may not consider a better alternative than a ff cup.

 

[aychen222]

I wish there were enclosures made for specific species. I understand the appeal of do it yourself enclosures, since I love arts and crafts, but so often on the care sheets people just put "3X2X2 and adequate ventilation." I would love to pick all of your brains since you all have so much experience in this hobby, but I am sure you get questions like this all the time from people new to the hobby. And I don't want to alienate any of you since you are also the ones who have the species that I want to try next. I definitely wished more of you would do a thread/diary of how you keep/feed/breed like Mike and Albert do.

 

[SilentDeviL]

I did not claim you were in it to make a buck Albert, I said some are.....We all have our reasons for why and how we keep them I just think its about time we try and set some type of hobby standard. Its time to teach and lead by example or this hobby will forever remain small and a mess. So many walk away after a fail or two with raising, even trying to breed and in some cases housing is the issue. We know this.

And Sally my response was NOT based on your housing choice, it was based on whether or not we really have the right to down someones simple want for more than the bare minimal conditions, it shouldn't be joked about it leaves new hobbyist on a path where they may not consider a better alternative than a ff cup.

I feel u BT ... I really Miss the time when I only Had 3 mantis .... but is too late now .... I spend around 3hr carry for them ... Really Pissed me off when i hear some bull Shix ..... Is like I'm wasting my time on Mantis .. when i have other thing to do in Life .

 

[aychen222]

And what does being a true hobbyist entail? Albert is introducing new species into U.S., sorry Canadian, culture, and also providing new hobbyists with species that they might otherwise need to pay an arm and a leg for. He is doing more for the hobby than I am, that's for sure.

 

[SilentDeviL]

I wish there were enclosures made for specific species. I understand the appeal of do it yourself enclosures, since I love arts and crafts, but so often on the care sheets people just put "3X2X2 and adequate ventilation." I would love to pick all of your brains since you all have so much experience in this hobby, but I am sure you get questions like this all the time from people new to the hobby. And I don't want to alienate any of you since you are also the ones who have the species that I want to try next. I definitely wished more of you would do a thread/diary of how you keep/feed/breed like Mike and Albert do.

unk: For sure My Friend .

 

[sally]

Congratz Sally .

Don't let the Canadian Mike see this Pic or His ganna think u treat ur Mantis Poorly by giving them so little Space lol. A single Ghost should live in a 10L container so they have room to run around when they hardly move =.=" lol

. Oh It's only temporary I got him last week. I just ordered 4 more large hexes from Rebecca, all my adults live alone in the large hex containers

 

[Reptiliatus]

Wow!

I'm really not one to pick sides, however seeing that Albert is one of my best friends, and that I feel like he is continuously being judged, I feel the need to say something here.

We all have our own ways/methods of keeping our mantids. I agree with what bug trader said but I don't think anyone should have to feel judged or bluntly insulted for the way they keep mantids, especially publicly on this forum (and I'm not saying that was you bug trader).

I can't agree more with aychen222.

Mike, with all due respect this adds to several other occasions I personally have heard you speak poorly of Albert's rearing methods wether it be chat, pm's, etc. It's no wonder he made a comment like that. Aren't half of the species you own from him? What do you have against him? You can keep your mantids however you like, just don't judge Albert for doing things differently than you.

Thanks

 

[patrickfraser]

Congrats on your new man. :clap:

fftopic: , but sorry. This is what it's turned into

Badmouthing "competition" is nothing new. I've seen and heard it here a few times. Who cares how other people raise their mantids? Do what works for you and have fun. If someone is successful with something, who has the right to say it's wrong? Mind your mantids and your own "business". I won't say my mantids live at The Ritz, but more like a roach infested (in a good way :lol: ) Econolodge. What actually IS the definition and guidelines for a "true" hobbyist? I keep as many species going that I can from one generation to the next. If I have A LOT, I will sell some nymphs. Nobody likes being ragged on and it's even worse hearing someone is talking trash behind your back.

 

[Bug Trader]

Patrick I dont think competition has anything to do with it, I posted based Albert ripping someone over wanting more than the bare minimal and I kept it respectfull. When I look at the hobby I see very little reason for anyone to look at another hobbyist as competition being VERY LITTLE here are actiually regularly bred and established in our hobby. Competition for sales as you have seen in the cham hobby is usually based the lack of demand being their are hundreds of successfull breeders now but we all know egos do get in the way of it as well.

Still though I think the hobby as a whole needs to get to the point we set a standard of care and housing, atleast something based on educating new hobbyists otherwise how can we grow as a hobby? We are quick to tell someone they are doing something wrong when it comes to feeding, temps, humidity, ventilation, breeding, ooth incubation and other issues but why is housing a soar spot for this hobby? Many of us are hands on, others are not but there are options that do not leave an adult mantid with only enough to turn around and reset their footing.

 

[SilentDeviL]

Congrats on your new man. :clap:

fftopic: , but sorry. This is what it's turned into

Badmouthing "competition" is nothing new. I've seen and heard it here a few times. Who cares how other people raise their mantids? Do what works for you and have fun. If someone is successful with something, who has the right to say it's wrong? Mind your mantids and your own "business". I won't say my mantids live at The Ritz, but more like a roach infested (in a good way :lol: ) Econolodge. What actually IS the definition and guidelines for a "true" hobbyist? I keep as many species going that I can from one generation to the next. If I have A LOT, I will sell some nymphs. Nobody likes being ragged on and it's even worse hearing someone is talking trash behind your back.

unk: I think we have the same goal Keep the Hobby going and Bring New Species in Culture take on new Challenges.

 

[patrickfraser]

It keeps me occupied/distracted, as I am home most of the time looking after my 90 year old father. Not to mention they make great feeders for chameleons. Just saying... :lol:

So who's going to lobby congress for the "Mantis Welfare Bill" and who's going to be reponsible for writing it up and enforcing it?

 

[SilentDeviL]

It keeps me occupied/distracted, as I am home most of the time looking after my 90 year old father. Not to mention they make great feeders for chameleons. Just saying... :lol:

So who's going to lobby congress for the "Mantis Welfare Bill" and who's going to be reponsible for writing it up and enforcing it?

Really Can ur chameleon Eat a 11cm Hierodula majuscula ??

 

[Bug Trader]

So Patrick would you see anything wrong with someone on Chameleon forum posting up adult panthers inside a 12'' cube just hanging out in there all their lives? That hobby and many others have pushed hard to set an example of not only bigger is better but to set an example and even call people out on the sub par care they see other hobbyists putting their chams through. I am jumping off this topic now but the bottom line is Im seeing talk about people not being hobbyists, which I never claimed as well as talk about competition when breeding and sales werent the subject, housing was.

Later guys.