Yea well, I never measured them, this is one species that is really hard. :blink: The female is not eating and I could pull the couple hairs I have left out, but hubby seems attached to them :lol: . She somehow got her one arm crossed over the other arm the night after mating and even though I unhooked it she wont use them to hold anything, so now I am hand feeding her. What a bother! I could just scream and think I will..... :taz: I couldn't find a screaming smilie ( and I insist you guys get one) so I used him. So now I have two female idols to hand feed, and my hand is starting to go numb now even during times when not feeding them. This is not right. It made me sad and angry at same time, so I did not write about it last night hoping I was wrong, but I am not, and if that is not bad enough, she insists on hangin upside down to eat. DON'T EVEN ASK! :taz: :taz: