is it me or is it the crickets from petco, every year when the weather becomes cold in the fall and theres no more bugs outside, i have to turn to store crickets, which i notice all my adult mantids die a week or 2 after i start feeding them crickets, now my last adult female is dying at the bottom of the aquarium, it caught the last cricket in the tank last night and took a couple bites and just has it in its fore arms ever since last night, its sitting and not moving at all at the bottom with its head bent down to the ground :angry:
Store Crickets R Safe?
- Thread starter SlowChild
- Start date
Help Support Mantidforum:
kamakiri
Well-known member
It is a real concern. Anytime I have to resort to any pet store crix, they're quarantined and fed on my foods to make sure they are healthy first. A mantis is what it eats.
What breed of mantis are you talking about?
Get your crickets from an online breeder. I like worrman and grubco. I have never had an issue with their crickets. If you have to get them at a subpar place then don't use them for several days while you feed them leafy greens, dog food, fish food, etc.
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Ha ha! If you are keeping U.S. mantids, they are usually getting ready to die at the same time that their food supply would disappear in the wild. It is not only frost that kills them off. Your mantids have probably reached the end of the road.
I almost never feed crix, for reasons that have nothing to do with any harm that they may do the mantids, but it's about time, once again, to attack the myths about pet store crickets in defiance of the advice of many much more experienced breeders than I.
Some mantis breeders advocate buying crickets from a wholesaler both to save money and receive a better quality insect. Pet store crix come from exactly the same wholesalers. Furthermore, if you go to a busy store, they will usually have had their crix in stock for less than a week -- they get a delivery usually in the middle of the week.
Let's look at the question of these mysteriously lethal crix. Are we proposing that they are some sort of orthopterous Typhoid Mary which carry a fatal but always unidentified disease for mantids while they remain lively and healthy looking themselves? Of course, if you are feeding crix that are dying off right left and center, you deserve to lose yr mantis raising permit and pay a stiff fine.
Gut loading with yummy fresh veggies is usually advocated as the cure for potentially toxic crix, but no one quite explains why. After a few days of such a regimen, all you will have is a cricket with a gut full of food that the mantis cannot digest. Also, you need to know that when the food enters a mantid's midgut, it is surrounded by a membrane which, among other things, prevents pathogens in the food from entering it's system with the products of digestion. I am not saying that you shouldn't feed the best food available, of course, merely that it will do the mantis no good at all.*
Finally, I would point out that unhealthy crix, like unhealthy mantids, will die, and if they die in the store, they will represent a loss to the store owner, not a good way to do business.
There is one thing that I have wondered about and never checked out except in one store. Almost no store crix are bought to feed mantids. They mostly go to feed herps. I wonder if some stores are not feeding some kid of multivitamin and calcium powder which is fine for herps but may cause problems with crix.
Edit: * I just remembered that D. Yager, in the last chapter of the Prete book, recommends gut loading with animal proteins like dog, cat and fish food. Now that does make sense and greatly increases the crickets' nutritional value.
I almost never feed crix, for reasons that have nothing to do with any harm that they may do the mantids, but it's about time, once again, to attack the myths about pet store crickets in defiance of the advice of many much more experienced breeders than I.
Some mantis breeders advocate buying crickets from a wholesaler both to save money and receive a better quality insect. Pet store crix come from exactly the same wholesalers. Furthermore, if you go to a busy store, they will usually have had their crix in stock for less than a week -- they get a delivery usually in the middle of the week.
Let's look at the question of these mysteriously lethal crix. Are we proposing that they are some sort of orthopterous Typhoid Mary which carry a fatal but always unidentified disease for mantids while they remain lively and healthy looking themselves? Of course, if you are feeding crix that are dying off right left and center, you deserve to lose yr mantis raising permit and pay a stiff fine.
Gut loading with yummy fresh veggies is usually advocated as the cure for potentially toxic crix, but no one quite explains why. After a few days of such a regimen, all you will have is a cricket with a gut full of food that the mantis cannot digest. Also, you need to know that when the food enters a mantid's midgut, it is surrounded by a membrane which, among other things, prevents pathogens in the food from entering it's system with the products of digestion. I am not saying that you shouldn't feed the best food available, of course, merely that it will do the mantis no good at all.*
Finally, I would point out that unhealthy crix, like unhealthy mantids, will die, and if they die in the store, they will represent a loss to the store owner, not a good way to do business.
There is one thing that I have wondered about and never checked out except in one store. Almost no store crix are bought to feed mantids. They mostly go to feed herps. I wonder if some stores are not feeding some kid of multivitamin and calcium powder which is fine for herps but may cause problems with crix.
Edit: * I just remembered that D. Yager, in the last chapter of the Prete book, recommends gut loading with animal proteins like dog, cat and fish food. Now that does make sense and greatly increases the crickets' nutritional value.
Last edited by a moderator:
Good advice Phil! I do feed mine that food too. Also I agree about the pet store cricks, They always look good, are clean and i do not see dead ones in with them, so I do buy them when I am in a fix. I also feed mine carrots, which some say are bad, but grubco uses them, so why shouldnt' I!
[email protected]
Well-known member
[SIZE=14pt]Cool Phil good info man, well I see that there is calcium in some of the water bits and then some also have added vitamins and calcium in there gutload or total bit.[/SIZE]
[email protected]
Well-known member
[SIZE=14pt]Hey Phil wasn't there something about feeding carrots to roaches you told me once :lol:
ya it was some1 saying not to feed them to them but you & I do so ha ha.[/SIZE]Oh ya I like to feed Super[SIZE=14pt]worms to my larger manitds, all I do is glue a 2oz cup to the side and then dinner is ready.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]
Of course they come from the same places. However, once they arrive in a typical pet store the quality of care often goes downhill. You mentioned food. Well of course a variety is the best option. I feed a mix of veggies and dog food. Are you saying you should wait longer for the cricket to digest its food before offering it to the mantis? Nothing wrong with that advice. Keep in mind most food insects in the wild also have a gut load of plant matter that the mantis cannot digest. I see no difference..
charleyandbecky
Well-known member
I don't know about all this, but I usually use Pet Smart crickets. I find grasshoppers in the yard quite a bit for the larger mantids, but the smaller ones get crickets from Pet Smart. They deliver on Thursdays and I get my supply on Thursdays so I can get the newest ones. The only untimely mantis deaths I have experienced were from a bad molt, never anything I could attribute to diet. We have had such an unbelievable amount of rain this summer that my yard has spent a large amount of time underwater...not good food-hunting for me. So, the storebought crickets have been a good, reliable food source with (thankfully) no issues.
That being said, this time of year, my spring-hatched babies are beginning to slow down and reach the end of the road. I haven't had any die yet but I come in here every morning expecting it. I have one ancient Chinese male that I just cannot believe every morning when he is still alive. :mellow:
Rebecca
That being said, this time of year, my spring-hatched babies are beginning to slow down and reach the end of the road. I haven't had any die yet but I come in here every morning expecting it. I have one ancient Chinese male that I just cannot believe every morning when he is still alive. :mellow:
Rebecca
Then I wouldn't worry about it in your case. The whole cricket thing is blown out of proportion anyways.
JoeCapricorn
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2009
- Messages
- 399
- Reaction score
- 13
Has anyone had any experience with "Orange Cube" cricket food? I give that to my crickets as it provides food and humidity, and they love it... but I often notice that mantises will stop eating them at a certain point, when they start biting at the Orange Cube still in the cricket's stomach. Not a big problem, since what I do is I pull the stomach out (this happens anyway since Amber does not seem to like catching live food, so I pull the cricket's head off and the stomach comes with, often with an orange turd-shaped thing wiggling along, then just let her 'nose' touch the decapitated cricket and she'll take it immediately) and refeed the cricket.
Now, as for my babies, they aren't on crickets yet, but when I do start getting them small sized crickets, which is better? Orange Cube or cat food with water?
Now, as for my babies, they aren't on crickets yet, but when I do start getting them small sized crickets, which is better? Orange Cube or cat food with water?
Yep. Waste of money. Cheaper for me to just give them stuff I already have around. A variety of natural food is better than anything like that stuff.
sbugir
Well-known member
I do have that Flukers Orange Cricket Cube stuff. It works alright. It helps if your lazy like me, as it's convenient to throw in some cubes haha. But Rick is right, its much more convenient, cheaper, and healthier to feed them veggies and stuff laying around the house, or fridge
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Yep, gotta agree with both of you on the Orange Cube. They work fine, but you are paying for hype -- "Formulated to be easily digested by all feeder insects," -- which means nothing at all, metallic salts and vitamins which are great for herps, but unnecessary for the well being of either the crix or mantids.
Whatever form of vegetables you feed, though, remember that crix are omnivores, and the animal protein in cat or dog (or hedgehog) food will make them smile.
Whatever form of vegetables you feed, though, remember that crix are omnivores, and the animal protein in cat or dog (or hedgehog) food will make them smile.
I like dog food better. Cat food contains more protein than dog food therefore dog food also has a lot of other stuff that crix like.
I rarely feed my mantids crickets its a good diet but most of mine dont even take interest i would look into bbf's or house pupae's flies are defenitly your best bet for your mantids and you can let them hatch and feed them honey as i do crickets are grounds insects and manitds are not they spend 75 percent of there time on the tops of containers so hit up www.mantisplace.com and you can get some flies good luck...
Please don't take me wrong Rick, but I wonder if you just don't want or can't understand that this isn't true. We told you since years that crickets may cause a problem, and you continuously insist that they don't. And every time we asked about the species you made your experiences with you didn't give an answer. The problem I have with your answers concerning this issue are the generalizations you make. Since several years I try to convince people to take care with feeding crickets, to check quality and to generally avoid feeding certain species with them. I also said that crickets are not bad per se, but in fact good mantis food if you breed them for yourself or know the source and the breeding methods. All you say is "it doesn't matter", regardless of source or mantis species. This is misleading and really not funny. There were enough people who lost precious mantids to this unholy food source, and I am not talking here about T. sinensis you find in the backyard, but about Idolomantis, Gongylus, Rhombodera etc.
Infected mantids die rather quickly, so it must be either a pathogen or a toxic substance. Feeding the crickets for several days may enhance their nutritional value, it will not eliminate any pathogens or toxics (e.g. antibiotics) that have accumulated in the tissue over their whole life.
Like Phil said, cricket suppliers think of herps as cricket-eaters, and predators are not deterred by most arthropod pathogens. So, as long as no herp guy complains, they see no need for changing anything.
So, please, stop generalizations. The only thing you can say is that you haven't got problems yet with species X or Y. This is by far the more important info than "the cricket thing is blown out of proportion".
What? I don't insist they don't cause a problem! I never mentioned they were fine as food for two of the species you listed. I understand they are not an ideal food for every mantis .I fed three generations of Rhombodera on crickets with zero issues. I get sick and tired of people saying you can't use crickets for mantids which is not true. I have said TIME AND TIME AGAIN that you must get them from a good source and take care of them properly. So don't say otherwise. Why do you think I don't think crickets can cause problems? I"VE HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS! However like I say often, you have to care for them properly.
But for the average everyday hobbyist that makes up the majority of this hobby, good quality crickets that are taken care of are a fine food source. I get tired of the scare tactics everyone uses regarding crickets, hence my often short replies. I think somewhere along the line you misread what I have said regarding this issue. I am no expert like you I admit. I am an average hobbyist who represents others like myself. So to recap, I never, ever said crickets can't cause problems. I've had the problems myself and I have spoke about it on this board. I have said many times that when using crickets you have to get them from a good source and take care of them properly so don't say I said otherwise.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok, then this was misunderstood on my side. But you should maybe ask yourself why even me has wrongly understood what you said, not talking about less experienced guys than we two!. It just doesn't become clear from your answers.
The average or beginner hobbyist is really the problem. Of course someone who hasn't bred mantids before can't know about all problems, and as crickets were mentioned in almost every feeder insect source as good mantis food (which they were in the past), one cannot know about the new problems. Now when someone buys one or more mantids from me and asks for care tips, it is much safer to say "avoid crickets" than explaining when and how he should find, buy, and feed crickets until feeding them to mantids, how the cricket box should look like (no vomiting dots on the cardboard) or what he can do if he got a problem: in fact he can do nothing, even if the mantids should recover, they stay infertile. So, to avoid that people get disappointed after their first try, it's just safe to say: no crickets, so there is one failure less they can do. Some species like Idolomantis may die after a single cricket meal, but I didn't figure out yet why. I didn't try it with mines yet.
The average or beginner hobbyist is really the problem. Of course someone who hasn't bred mantids before can't know about all problems, and as crickets were mentioned in almost every feeder insect source as good mantis food (which they were in the past), one cannot know about the new problems. Now when someone buys one or more mantids from me and asks for care tips, it is much safer to say "avoid crickets" than explaining when and how he should find, buy, and feed crickets until feeding them to mantids, how the cricket box should look like (no vomiting dots on the cardboard) or what he can do if he got a problem: in fact he can do nothing, even if the mantids should recover, they stay infertile. So, to avoid that people get disappointed after their first try, it's just safe to say: no crickets, so there is one failure less they can do. Some species like Idolomantis may die after a single cricket meal, but I didn't figure out yet why. I didn't try it with mines yet.
Last edited by a moderator:
