vegan alternative for mantises?
- Thread starter kayimbo
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kayimbo
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hi justtrokkit, wonderful posts, thank you.
I'm very worried about the micro-nutrient thing, and don't really know of any way currently to work on that problem. Anyone have a some powerful centrifuges and can do nmr/gcms testing on blended up insects?
My reasons for wanting to do this experiment are pretty abstract. If you guys really care you can PM me and i'll explain my motivations. I'm not a vegan, i accept that as part of the experiment i'll probably kill alot of mantis. progress is sad like that
The details of my experiment that i've outlined are all just sketches at this point, tossing things out there. Sadly my male mantis died, but right after he died the female started showing signs of being pregnant, so i'm just kind of hoping here.
She's a european mantis though, so even if she lays a fertilized egg case, i'd still have quite a ways to go before i get nymphs. I don't know if i specifically stated it but i decided early on to try this with nymphs.
Getting those little mantis houses ready.
here is my baby, who i just call "green mantis".
edit: oh dear, does this forum allow autoplaying flash videos lol?
I'm very worried about the micro-nutrient thing, and don't really know of any way currently to work on that problem. Anyone have a some powerful centrifuges and can do nmr/gcms testing on blended up insects?
My reasons for wanting to do this experiment are pretty abstract. If you guys really care you can PM me and i'll explain my motivations. I'm not a vegan, i accept that as part of the experiment i'll probably kill alot of mantis. progress is sad like that
The details of my experiment that i've outlined are all just sketches at this point, tossing things out there. Sadly my male mantis died, but right after he died the female started showing signs of being pregnant, so i'm just kind of hoping here.
She's a european mantis though, so even if she lays a fertilized egg case, i'd still have quite a ways to go before i get nymphs. I don't know if i specifically stated it but i decided early on to try this with nymphs.
Getting those little mantis houses ready.
here is my baby, who i just call "green mantis".
edit: oh dear, does this forum allow autoplaying flash videos lol?
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happy1892
Well-known member
Just feed them an insect they can eat when the food is not working then try something different. I am not sure about the video. Can you tell if it is a European Mantis and not another kind of mantis? Many people see nothing different between animals that are similar (I do not think they care much and they have not seen many LOL!). If you are not sure they are European Mantids will you please take a video of her closer and try to get it clear as you can? Oh, and I guess European Mantids are the only mantids in North America that have a big black dot and many white dots below the black dots in between their front legs. And adult females are usually around 7cm long.My reasons for wanting to do this experiment are pretty abstract. If you guys really care you can PM me and i'll explain my motivations. I'm not a vegan, i accept that as part of the experiment i'll probably kill alot of mantis. progress is sad like that
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Golden State Vivs
Well-known member
progress is sad like that? no needless experimentation is sad like that.
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Bug Trader
Well-known member
Its pretty obvious when you come across a thread on any forum like this.......Its out of place, its always meant to stir up a debate and much more but when it involves the life of living organisms and your talking about trying to change evolution and recreate what you want its pretty clear you do not belong in this hobby. If you have to try and play god with a living being and risk its welfare for nothing more than to fit your wants, not needs this hobby is clearly not for you. Go get an iguana or something that wont suffer from your feeding requirments.
Doesnt matter if it can be done, why risk it, do you expect the rest of the hobby to follow and support this? I have to say , I wouldnt be lining up to buy any of your nutrient deprived mantids............
Doesnt matter if it can be done, why risk it, do you expect the rest of the hobby to follow and support this? I have to say , I wouldnt be lining up to buy any of your nutrient deprived mantids............
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Thank you BT!!! and very well put...I couldn't agree more. But he would only try and feed a Iguana hot dogs and raw meat to see what happens, disgusting!!!
Paradoxica
Well-known member
"Troll (Internet), an internet term for a person who, through willful action, attempts to disrupt a community or garner attention and controversy through provocative messages" -Wikipedia
sinensispsyched
Well-known member
Precisely.
brancsikia339
Well-known member
Killing mantids for experimentation! NOT COOL. Don't change nature and please STOP. The poor mantis!
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happy1892
Well-known member
How about cockroaches? They breed fast and are easier to keep, I mean many of them. If you kill many roaches it is much better than many mantids to me.
Kayimbo are you going to let them die? Can you tell when they are weak from when they are strong and well? You do not need to let them die by not having enough nutrition.
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wrenae
Active member
I can't believe I read the whole thing!
I can't believe that I actually feel compelled to contribute to this discussion!
It certainly has stirred up emotions... but it has also really brought up some interesting points to ponder:
- what exactly IS the nutritional make-up of a mantid's diet?
- how small could a robot possibly be?
- what are the evolutionary implications of changing the diet within a species?
- Is Kayimbo a troll?
We have been forced to explore our emotions and our ethics!
Here is something I found interesting! Over the past 18 months, through this hobby, I have learned the scientific names for several types of mantids, and 2 types of fruit flies. My interest in insects and arachnids over many years has led to me learning other scientific names for invertebrates ... but I didn't recognize the recipe ingredient Gryllidae, even though I feed and care for some on a daily basis! (before I feed them to my non-vegan mantid.)
I can't believe that I actually feel compelled to contribute to this discussion!
It certainly has stirred up emotions... but it has also really brought up some interesting points to ponder:
- what exactly IS the nutritional make-up of a mantid's diet?
- how small could a robot possibly be?
- what are the evolutionary implications of changing the diet within a species?
- Is Kayimbo a troll?
We have been forced to explore our emotions and our ethics!
Here is something I found interesting! Over the past 18 months, through this hobby, I have learned the scientific names for several types of mantids, and 2 types of fruit flies. My interest in insects and arachnids over many years has led to me learning other scientific names for invertebrates ... but I didn't recognize the recipe ingredient Gryllidae, even though I feed and care for some on a daily basis! (before I feed them to my non-vegan mantid.)
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Yeah this post got like 6 more pages worth of posts than it should have!!! Whats next "hey guys I'm going to feed my mantis only chocolate pudding" for pete's sake... :angry:
sinensispsyched
Well-known member
SomeWhiteGuy
Well-known member
Well maybe try flavorless jello with the vitamins in powder form mixed in and then make it into small chunks thread string in it pop it into the freezer so it is a little more solid then dangle in front of mantis tada XD
alan2296
Well-known member
Despite the points given from everybody I like the idea. And I agree with Orin it is not impossible, repashy has made a gel mix for carnivorious reptiles and amphibians. And guys mantids don't only eat live insects, my first mantis decided that he liked dead flies, Brancsikia339 can agree with me when I say this, and he lived to adulthood. The mantis wasn't starving or anything, he would just strike at dead flies then start eating them. I mean he had a few living flies just to be safe. But this jelly like thing would need to have something involving flies, crickets, etc. otherwise the mantis probably won't get enough nutrients and then die.
And guys he said he would accept the fact that he will probably lose some mantids in this experiment he didn't say that he would kill the mantids, some of you guys are being a little over dramatic don't you think? How do you guys think people came up with medicine?? They used test subjects and I'm sure a lot of them died. But they still accomplished something. And I understand that he may not be a doctor but my point is that if something good could come out of it why not try?? I mean it may not work, but it is seriously not the end of the world if one or 2 mantids die. I mean I wouldn't like having the mantis die either, but who knows maybe he will figure something out and people who don't feel comfortable feeding live food can finally keep mantids.
However, I wouldn't try this with my mantids. I'm too new to the hobby that I am just sticking to the facts I have read.
And guys he said he would accept the fact that he will probably lose some mantids in this experiment he didn't say that he would kill the mantids, some of you guys are being a little over dramatic don't you think? How do you guys think people came up with medicine?? They used test subjects and I'm sure a lot of them died. But they still accomplished something. And I understand that he may not be a doctor but my point is that if something good could come out of it why not try?? I mean it may not work, but it is seriously not the end of the world if one or 2 mantids die. I mean I wouldn't like having the mantis die either, but who knows maybe he will figure something out and people who don't feel comfortable feeding live food can finally keep mantids.
However, I wouldn't try this with my mantids. I'm too new to the hobby that I am just sticking to the facts I have read.
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happy1892
Well-known member
I think Orin was talking about making the food without any animals in it. Yes, mantids will eat dead things (but I think it has to get their attention somehow).
LOL! It would not be good if people were killed by those tests... I would use rabbits. I do not think they have to die. If they are starving that means it did not worked right? Then you could feed them back to health then do something else.
Peter Clausen
Well-known member
I read maybe half the posts in this thread. It's gotten long.
Just wanted to say very quickly that I'm 100% behind your experiment with mantises and a vegan diet, Kayimbo. Like I've said so many times before, we're all hypocrites for keeping a mantis in captivity in the first place, and choosing what and when it eats. You go, Kayimbo! You are so obviously not a troll from post #1. I'm sure many of these mantis hobbyists take better care of their mantises than the average American takes care of their children. Look at the health food industry. How much of that stuff is natural? We didn't evolve to eat even a fraction of the stuff we eat, but we're all doing just fine, living longer (on average). Orin made some excellent points along the way here. I'm sure there were others, but I hate to see a thread go a bad way when a little science is being done in the midst of so many hypocrites. There used to a lot more science on this forum, but not necessarily less bickering. Comes with the territory. Keep up the good work.
Just wanted to say very quickly that I'm 100% behind your experiment with mantises and a vegan diet, Kayimbo. Like I've said so many times before, we're all hypocrites for keeping a mantis in captivity in the first place, and choosing what and when it eats. You go, Kayimbo! You are so obviously not a troll from post #1. I'm sure many of these mantis hobbyists take better care of their mantises than the average American takes care of their children. Look at the health food industry. How much of that stuff is natural? We didn't evolve to eat even a fraction of the stuff we eat, but we're all doing just fine, living longer (on average). Orin made some excellent points along the way here. I'm sure there were others, but I hate to see a thread go a bad way when a little science is being done in the midst of so many hypocrites. There used to a lot more science on this forum, but not necessarily less bickering. Comes with the territory. Keep up the good work.
Sublime64tothe42
Active member
I never thought I would hear of a vegan keeping a wild animal in captivity? Vegans don't eat bee pollen nor honey due to the cruelty of the entire process, (this is coming from a vegan friend of mine) i don't see any cruelty being done in this line of work, Any who, aren't vegans 110% for letting all animals run free and don't use them for any of their sources nor keep them from being in their natural ways? Correct me if I am wrong, but I got these impressions from 2 family members and 1 good friend who all happen to be vegan.
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lancaster1313
Likebugs (site changed my name😐)
@ sublime: I thought the same thing about the vegan lifestyle but the creator of the topic is not a vegan. It is just an experiment.
Personally: I like the idea of some sort of pelleted diet for predatory insects,(just not a vegan one, I couldn't imagine a life without animal protein).
I would still feed live and think it is best, but in an emergency, predatory bug chow could come in handy.
Personally: I like the idea of some sort of pelleted diet for predatory insects,(just not a vegan one, I couldn't imagine a life without animal protein).
I would still feed live and think it is best, but in an emergency, predatory bug chow could come in handy.
