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Awesome offer of free mantids! Ghosts are definitely a good beginner species! Easy to care for, not too picky about prey items, and look like something right out of Aliens! Keep em fat, and you can keep them communally (Id do same sex groups though!)

The forum getting $$ ( and anyones business included) to me will always come second to perpetuating the hobby, and embracing what I think is the best thing about any hobby, which is sharing the wealth, trading critters around, and making good connections. Vendors come and they go, but good hobbyists spreading good solid information and building connections is what will make our hobby last long term, and will end up creating a community where good solid husbandry info based on sound science and observation is available to all.

THATS the best thing anyone can hope for in the hobby.

 
frogparty said:
Awesome offer of free mantids! Ghosts are definitely a good beginner species! Easy to care for, not too picky about prey items, and look like something right out of Aliens! Keep em fat, and you can keep them communally (Id do same sex groups though!)

The forum getting $$ ( and anyones business included) to me will always come second to perpetuating the hobby, and embracing what I think is the best thing about any hobby, which is sharing the wealth, trading critters around, and making good connections. Vendors come and they go, but good hobbyists spreading good solid information and building connections is what will make our hobby last long term, and will end up creating a community where good solid husbandry info based on sound science and observation is available to all.

THATS the best thing anyone can hope for in the hobby.
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Yeah that's what I meant :)

 
frogparty said:
Awesome offer of free mantids! Ghosts are definitely a good beginner species! Easy to care for, not too picky about prey items, and look like something right out of Aliens! Keep em fat, and you can keep them communally (Id do same sex groups though!)

The forum getting $$ ( and anyones business included) to me will always come second to perpetuating the hobby, and embracing what I think is the best thing about any hobby, which is sharing the wealth, trading critters around, and making good connections. Vendors come and they go, but good hobbyists spreading good solid information and building connections is what will make our hobby last long term, and will end up creating a community where good solid husbandry info based on sound science and observation is available to all.

THATS the best thing anyone can hope for in the hobby.
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Not trying to make anyone money. Agree with your sentiments regarding the hobby. However, I see this forum as the medium which facilitates the exchange. Where would the community be without it?

 
Just put my $ where my mouth is. Went green. Generous offer from bug trader too. One I would accept. The forum made that offer possible—nothing wrong with supporting it either. Rebecca was kind enough to offer a bonus/incentive. Sure it's free advertisement, but she is running business, right? And that is how I feel about that.

 
Thanks jam, nice to be understood! I only offer a couple as I discussed with Peter once, that is a good number to start out with for people new to the hobby, so they do not get overwhelmed with learning about them while caring for them too.

 
The hobby would still perpetuate, and the market will be taken over by vendors ready and able to offer competitive pricing, reliable availability, and willing to expand their market share in the hobby. We've seen it with spiders, dart frogs, you name it.

Hiding a plea for sales behind the " give me your $ so the forum benefits" is very transparent. To me, that attitude actually undercuts the good will expressed by bug trader in attempting to help out a new hobbyist

 
frogparty said:
The hobby would still perpetuate, and the market will be taken over by vendors ready and able to offer competitive pricing, reliable availability, and willing to expand their market share in the hobby. We've seen it with spiders, dart frogs, you name it.

Hiding a plea for sales behind the " give me your $ so the forum benefits" is very transparent. To me, that attitude actually undercuts the good will expressed by bug trader in attempting to help out a new hobbyist
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In the short time I've been here on MF I have noticed a pattern of near-constant sales pitches in discussion threads and thinly veiled insults directed toward any perceived competition. That is very unprofessional and off-putting behavior from a business owner, and slamming someone who offers a free start to a new hobbyist is a new low. I know where I won't be spending my money, no matter how thick the shills lay it on.

 
No point in continuing with this. Our minds just don't work alike . All about perception. As an objective observer—of which I try to be—I see things much differently. Good luck with "revolutionizing" the hobby.

 
This hobby needs revolutionizing. There is so much potential, and yet we are stuck with plastic plants in plastic tubs wondering if you can transplant a mantises head.

You ever compare this to ANY OTHER HOBBY?

 
frogparty said:
This hobby needs revolutionizing. There is so much potential, and yet we are stuck with plastic plants in plastic tubs wondering if you can transplant a mantises head.

You ever compare this to ANY OTHER HOBBY?
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Hey, why stop now?

I've read this argument somewhere before. Original? Echolalia? I don't see anyone standing in the way of advancement. As a matter of fact, this hobby has come a LONG way. And to answer your question, why yes, yes I have compared...

 
A hobby where your post count is based on rank, the lack of a real dedication to establishing what we are working with, the lack of educational and science based content vs what to name your bug and how to feed it unnatural foods. I have not hid the fact I think the hobby needs a better goal and that it needs to be a group effort so to mention good luck revolutionizing the hobby is crazy because I have already started the process as have other like minded hobbyists. I get more messages for advice, information, than anything and somehow I cant tell people to look on the forum because I personally do not like to have to dig through threads that end with off topic chats, sales offers and other BS.

So excuse me for mentioning to a new hobbyist that i would like to offer them something free with no strings attached so that just in case this hobby is not for them they didnt have to waste a sponsor fee and whatever else to get some free bugs. I can tell you for a fact anyone who knows me will confirm this forum is NOT the hobby like you refer to it as, The forum is just a piece of the big puzzle and forth most if you can't enjoy this hobby without the forum why did you even come here in the first place? I hand out, sell and show off more mantids on FB and through other means because the hobby will not grow with us just sitting here trading bugs between the few of us. It will bring in other ideas, business, means to advance husbandry and the establishment of whats here but since you seem fine with the way things are why bother trying right?

 
Where I see this hobby going is :

SCIENTIFIC based care and husbandry info

DISCOURAGING of inbreeding

PROMOTION of more naturalistic Vivariums

INCREASE in quality feeder items

 
jamurfjr said:
Hey, why stop now?

I've read this argument somewhere before. Original? Echolalia? I don't see anyone standing in the way of advancement. As a matter of fact, this hobby has come a LONG way. And to answer your question, why yes, yes I have compared...
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You're so witty, anyone who wants to grow beyond gumball containers and licking the boots of a wannabe mantid tycoon is developmentally disabled? Give me a break.

 
Bug Trader said:
A hobby where your post count is based on rank, the lack of a real dedication to establishing what we are working with, the lack of educational and science based content vs what to name your bug and how to feed it unnatural foods. I have not hid the fact I think the hobby needs a better goal and that it needs to be a group effort so to mention good luck revolutionizing the hobby is crazy because I have already started the process as have other like minded hobbyists. I get more messages for advice, information, than anything and somehow I cant tell people to look on the forum because I personally do not like to have to dig through threads that end with off topic chats, sales offers and other BS.

So excuse me for mentioning to a new hobbyist that i would like to offer them something free with no strings attached so that just in case this hobby is not for them they didnt have to waste a sponsor fee and whatever else to get some free bugs. I can tell you for a fact anyone who knows me will confirm this forum is NOT the hobby like you refer to it as, The forum is just a piece of the big puzzle and forth most if you can't enjoy this hobby without the forum why did you even come here in the first place? I hand out, sell and show off more mantids on FB and through other means because the hobby will not grow with us just sitting here trading bugs between the few of us. It will bring in other ideas, business, means to advance husbandry and the establishment of whats here but since you seem fine with the way things are why bother trying right?
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I never criticized you for offering the freebies. In fact, I thought it very nice. However, I now wonder if it wasn't a ploy.

Yeah, and besides, shouldn't you be working on project mantis. Wait a sec! Whoops, Orin wrote the book. Rebecca owns a mantis business. Doh! And Peter has the forum. Okay, I can see why you have the time.

I'm going to be brutally honest here: Not the that I'm some great writer, but I really wish an English major would come along and diagram your sentences and point out errors. I don't see you as the king of mantids. I see you as the king of run-on sentences. Hard to take seriously.

The above comment's negativity is reminiscent of how I perceive your posts. Your condescension has not won me over.

 
Tony C said:
You're so witty, anyone who wants to grow beyond gumball containers and licking the boots of a wannabe mantid tycoon is developmentally disabled? Give me a break.
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Well, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. How again did you hear about this forum? Lol!

You really know nothing about me.

And for the record, I have never patronized Rebecca's business.

 
King of Mantids? Really? You may have better grammar but name calling to call it a ploy that I offered free mantids. I have given away far more now than I will ever sell so take your time and point out any mistakes in my posts you can because when its all said and done I have my hobby, friends and a plan to bring in more like minded people looking to take on a nice project or two and you can go on defending the entire HOBBY right here on MF.

But I'm just a simple hobbyist, sorry I do not have a book out yet, or that I havent established a business I guess I've been too busy trying to make getting feeders, mantids and other nice ideas like cages out to the hobby at costs so we can all benefit.

 
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I think the main point that bug trader and I are trying to make is this: (I am NOT trying to put words into his mouth here, just a guess, since I know him from another exotics hobby)

We've seen other hobbies evolve from the days BEFORE THE INTERNET, to where they currently stand. Weve seen people who like to keep the hobby the way it is balk at change, because these people are big fish in a little pond, and they want to keep it that way, because thats the way they like it. New people come along who can do it better, more reliably, more competitively priced etc and theres a backlash... a BIG backlash, but in the end, the vendors who have the advancement of the hobby at heart are the ones that ALWAYS last long term. And yeah, some of the pioneers fell off, because they couldnt adapt to the way the hobby was changing. But the hobby didnt suffer because of it. It always got better.

Back in the day, you had to try really hard to get the valuable information and insight you needed to be successful, and ANYTIME another hobbyist wanted to feel generous and share animals, husbandry "secrets" etc it was like finding a gold nugget while mowing your lawn- unexpected, but EXTREMELY appreciated. No one bothered with random BS questions like " HEY, can I glue the abdomen of my skeleton tarantula to the cephalothorax of my red knee tarantula? that would look awesome" You had to read books, articles, and put valuable animals on the line for trial and error to figure out just what was going to work out the best. People had a lot more respect for where their information came from because of it, and there was a WHOLE LOT LESS repetitive " I heard this, that etc" misinformation spread around by people who really had no idea what they were talking about.

With the internet, information sharing got a lot easier, but even at first, with slow modem speeds and no forums, it was all email correspondence and you still had to wait for your price lists to come in the mail, or join a local society of interest to make connections to get what you wanted. There was a lOT of sharing/ trading going on, and it really helped to grow the hobby to a whole other level. USUALLY, for the better.

THIS hobby has a looooong way to go. Why discourage any QUALITY information sharing, animal trading, husbandry secrets etc when its going to make our hobby SO MUCH BETTER?

 

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