Why not feed crickets?

[Rick]

I buy crickets 1000 at a time from reputable breeders online and NOT from a pet store. They're much cheaper bought in bulk anyways. Crickets are not harmful to mantids. It is also a slim chance they will chew on a mantis. If they do it is usually a sick or dying mantis or one that has fallen during a molt. But then again you should remove all types of food if the mantis is about to molt. Go ahead and use them and don't worry. You can also use flies, roaches, or anything you find outside which includes black crickets. I feed mine almost anything I find outside which even includes bees. No wasps as most refuse them for some reason. I can count on half a hand how many times I have had problems related to crickets.

 

[Andrew]

For the record, I also buy 1000 at a time, still boxed up from the online seller that the pet store bought them from.

 

[darkspeed]

Links/documentation please if you have any on black crickets (what species?) being toxic to certain predators. I've never heard of this and couldn't find anything on the web about it. I wouldn't be worried about store crickets being the dangerous variety since they are bred in captivity and a completely different line of crickets. The only worry I would have is that while in other hands the crickets could have been introduced or managed to ingest a dangerous substance that could intern effect the mantises if eaten. That is why I always give store bought crickets at least a week, to die off or clear there systems before feeding to my mantises.As for the ghosts, My male ghost had no problem tackling crickets and never showed any negative effects from his cricket diet.

I have not found any literature to support it either, but that is what I was told by my local pet store owner... he may very well have told me that to keep me from catching my own crickets and instead putting my money in his pocket...... nevertheless, if there is another feeder insect available I usually choose them over crickets. They are a last resort for me.

 

[Christian]

Crickets are not toxic to mantids, it seems clear why pet store owners try to establish this bull****.

However, they may carry pathogens, and, at least over here, they do. So, it is of absolutely no importance to anyone affected that Rick, for instance, has no problems with his ones. Rather, he is lucky to have a good supplier. I can't say this of my sources. It is useless to start a topic and ask the guys if they use crickets, as you will get different answers. You just have to test it by yourself: if your mantids die, don't use them, if not, they are fine. I wrote already on this topic. One point though, should be highlighted: if a cricket box contains infected crickets, no food whatsoever can solve the problem. It is a pathogen, a parasite, the food offered makes no difference. So, you may either have a good supplier of mantid-proof crickets or you should breed them by yourself. In all other cases, feeding crickets to mantids is risky. Positive experiences by a few don't outweigh the losses of many.

EDIT: I completely forgot an important point: often infected mantids don't die, but recover. One may think then that everything is fine, but it isn't, as the concerned specimens are infertile. I wonder how many breeding attempts failed because of this reason!

 

[Mantida]

Damn, I'm glad I read your post Christian. Seems like the risk outweighs the actual benefits of feeding crickets, no? I guess I have a good supplier, but I don't think I'll be using crickets again.

 

[Orin]

I have not found any literature to support it either, but that is what I was told by my local pet store owner... he may very well have told me that to keep me from catching my own crickets and instead putting my money in his pocket...... nevertheless, if there is another feeder insect available I usually choose them over crickets. They are a last resort for me.

Your pet store owner has an ative imagination if not just trying to pull one over on you.

Flies are deficient in certain amino acids which causes serious issues in arachnids and centipedes but doesn't seem to bother mantids. Waxworm larvae are little more than bags of fat and are not a recommended diet for reptiles, but might be just fine for mantids. Mantids grown on roaches do tend to grow larger and have less trouble than those reared on crickets (under otherwise identical conditions only of course). The care taken and amount of feeding can be far more important than the type of prey.

 

[Rick]

Damn, I'm glad I read your post Christian. Seems like the risk outweighs the actual benefits of feeding crickets, no? I guess I have a good supplier, but I don't think I'll be using crickets again.

Obvioulsy Christian knows his stuff but I think you're worrying about something that isn't worth worrying about. As with any food there is a risk of some sort however I think this risk is very low. For the record mine come from Grubco and Wormman.

 

[Christian]

I can assure you that the problem is not a minor one over here. I think it's rather difficult to assess the severeness of the problem if you were never faced with it. Despite of supplier quality it would maybe be good to know which species you are keeping, Rick: if you are/were just keeping the robust ones, this may explain partially (?) the problem.

 

[bugzilla]

I'm keeping orchids and flower mantis atm so am figuring these are not overly robust and they've cost me an arm and a leg (the orchids set me back almost £60 with delivery) so I don't want to risk anything with these in particular.

I'll have to order some curly wing flies next week. How long will these last? Would hathing out maggots from a fishing tackle shop be OK, or maybe the maggots themselves???

 

[macro junkie]

well my jade was being sick for 1 week..somone said on here u cant over feed mantids..so the only reason i can think of is she had a bad cricket..if it had flys mayby it walnut of happened..1 week later shes dead?if that wasnt the crickets that done it what was it?

 

[Krissim Klaw]

In all other cases, feeding crickets to mantids is risky. Positive experiences by a few don't outweigh the losses of many.

I wasn't aware that there was such a high death rate with mantises on crickets? So are the flies and roaches just not prone to as many pathogens/parasites or is it that generally the places that breed/sell them care for them better than crickets?I must admit my study group of mantises is far smaller than most members on this site. I keep mine strictly as pets and don't breed. Normally I only like to have 1-3 at a time. That being said, they are my little bug eyed babies and I try to keep them as healthy as possible. Still, I also regularly feed wild caught and I know certainly there is risk involved in that practice too, but my mantises seem to thrive on the variety.

 

[Rick]

I have had problems with mantids that I assumed were caused by a bad batch of crickets. This has only happened once or twice in several years though. I think that where you get your crickets probably has something to do with it. Here in the US we have plenty of choices of where to buy them from. In other countries this cricket problem may be more of an issue. So as for mantids keepers in the US I think this is very low risk if at all.

bugzilla, keep the maggots in the fridge and take out however many you want to pupate. At room temps they should turn into flies in a week or so. I find these are great food for mantids that are too big for fruit flies. For large mantids you have to feed a lot of these in order to fill the mantis up and you should probably switch to crickets or roaches.

 

[tier]

Hi

I want to abstract my thoughts on crickets. Therefor I want to determine them first:

In Germany you can get several kinds of "crickets", which are in general:

-Acheta domestica

-Gryllus bimaculatus

-Gryllus assimlilis

-mule of these species

First: All are great food as long as they do not carry pathogens.

Second: All these species available in Germany do carry pathogens, in general every box of crickets over here do.

Rick, I do believe that you do not have this problems in USA, you should be right because healthy crickets should be great food.

Third: Some species like Blepharopsis, Gongylus, Idolomantis and other Empusidae can die after eating crickets. This concerns adult females only because they cannot lay ooth anymore but will be congested by the ooth-material and die a slow death. This has nothing to do with pathogens but with the diet itself: No crickets - neither ill nor the healthiest ones - for our Empusidae, please.

best regards and have a nice easter,

tier

 

[Precious]

I haven't been keeping mantids too very long, and there is no scientific or statistical support to my observations. That said, my mantids fair much better on flies, moths, butterflies and bees than they do on the crickets. If it made that much difference, I wouldn't use crickets and I use them all the time. C'est la vie. I order bulk crickets online and am amazed at the difference in their quality as opposed to the pet store. The pet store is dang handy, though. I'm curious about the oatmeal. I have two large plastic containers with fresh egg carton and I transfer the crix once a week. It allows me to remove the dead and sanitize the enclosure. Maybe a substrate of oatmeal would be easier.

 

[bugzilla]

Just a tought on crickets causing deaths, could this also be to do with the food they get.

Most supermarket produce is literally covered in pesticides, washing won't do much to clean them as some will get absorbed into the leaves. Crickets eat this and are pretty tough but accumulate the poison in their tissues which then kills the mantis :huh:

This happens in nature all the time, Seratoga poisoning form fish in Australia for exaample.

From what some peolpe have said about vomiting just after eating a cricket I can't see a pathogen acting this quickly (except Ebola maybe :lol: )

Just a thought

Huw

 

[Rick]

I haven't been keeping mantids too very long, and there is no scientific or statistical support to my observations. That said, my mantids fair much better on flies, moths, butterflies and bees than they do on the crickets. If it made that much difference, I wouldn't use crickets and I use them all the time. C'est la vie. I order bulk crickets online and am amazed at the difference in their quality as opposed to the pet store. The pet store is dang handy, though. I'm curious about the oatmeal. I have two large plastic containers with fresh egg carton and I transfer the crix once a week. It allows me to remove the dead and sanitize the enclosure. Maybe a substrate of oatmeal would be easier.

I rarely if ever actually clean the cricket enclosure. I pick out uneaten food but that's about it. According to this thread I must have unheard of results with using crickets since my mantids are all healthy and are not dying from crickets. I think a lot of you need to look at how you keep your crickets or where you get em from.

 

[Orin]

According to this thread I must have unheard of results with using crickets since my mantids are all healthy and are not dying from crickets.

Maybe but I used primarily purchased crickets years ago and know others who did the same with good success for a number of mantis species. I've never heard of such a thing here in the states but I guess there could be some undescribed orthopteran plague in Europe.

 

[Rick]

Maybe but I used primarily purchased crickets years ago and know others who did the same with good success for a number of mantis species. I've never heard of such a thing here in the states but I guess there could be some undescribed orthopteran plague in Europe.

Well obviously I am speaking for those here in the US as I mentioned before.

 

[Christian]

You must be lucky over there to have such a good cricket supply. We had good crickets, too, but since a few years all we get is ######. It probably is due to two factors: first of all, the number of herp and bug guys is increasing, so the cricket breeders learned that it would become a good deal and raised the numbers of bred crickets. I doubt that that all of them raised the space needed in the same manner... As everywhere, overpopulation is a good source for pathogens, so the crickets became either sick or were treated with chemicals to supress the illnesses, both of which don't really do well to other arthropods. The problem is that the main customers aren't mantid guys, but herpies, and the vertebrate gut probably doesn't bother because of some lousy arthropod illnesses. So, as long as the herp guys don't complain, why change the procedure?

The second point may be a little more delicate: some cricket suppliers are worse than other ones. There are some indices that they treat their crickets in a way to prevent others to breed them by themselves, so they are forced to buy them from the supplier again: it is said that some use radiation to sterilize them, or some chemicals. Now, I cannot say if this is true, but I know from a collegue who wanted to establish a breeding stock, that some crickets just don't reproduce. He tried another source and these crickets reproduced formidably under the same conditions. So, I decided to leave the suppliers with their ###### alone and breed my own roaches.

 

[Rob Byatt]

The problem is that the main customers aren't mantid guys, but herpies, and the vertebrate gut probably doesn't bother because of some lousy arthropod illnesses. So, as long as the herp guys don't complain, why change the procedure?

True, most customers are herpies. But......a few years a go crickets did cause big problems with herps. Everybody was complaining then

As Christian and I both stated before, some species of mantis remain unaffected by 'infected' crickets.

Rick, what species are you keeping ?

Rob.