Wing problem after final molt..

[Celticlyle]

Hey guys, I have an African lined mantis that shed into its final adult form around 7 days ago. She was in a more than a sufficiently large enclosure at the time of her molt and it was nice and sprayed down as i seen her wing buds getting large very fast i knew it was coming. It was successful apart from 1 thing...Her wings seem to be folded and crumpled and almost dry looking.. the under wings look fine and colored but the top wings just do not fold in ever.. they are like crumpled at the base where they meet her abdomen and stick out wonky. It does not seem to effect her at all and she eats fine and hunts as before. My main worry was that they might be open to decay or mold or anything when they do not shut right and i know how important it is for a mantis to keep itself clean multiple times a day. Any words of wisdom would be great.. Im hoping for a it will be fine and not be able to fly ... she is eating like the carnivore that she is so it looks to be unaffected so far..but early days!

 

[Celticlyle]

I may add that she sat for 2 days with her wings upside down hanging as normal (inflating?) but when she came down and came out the wings had almost dired out that way... weird how this happened as all her other molts have been perfect.

 

[Synapze]

Crumpled wings often occur during the adult molt, but it usually doesn't affect overall health. It's more of an aesthetic issue. If the mantis doesn't have mobility problems, I wouldn't be concerned, but it could be a problem if you plan to breed. 

I've never experienced or heard of crumpled wings molding or decaying. It's certainly disappointing, but personally I would worry about it. Hope this helps. 

 

[MantisGirl13]

She'll be fine, they shouldn't hinder her. I've got a male double shield with the same problem.

- MantisGirl13 

 

[hysteresis]

This happens when the mantis hasn't had enough to drink. I had two male idolomantis this happened to.

Fixed it by the third by ensuring they had lots of high-moisture-content prey.

 

[Celticlyle]

wow thanks for the reply's guys!! very much appreciated. I am quite sad that it is probably my fault that the matid never had enough water to fully inflate her wings? she looked fine until she came up from being upside down.. im still happy with her just a shame aesthetically but I cant speak haha. Just for future notice then was this the mantis not getting enough water from spraying the tank down daily or the water content in its food?

 

[Celticlyle]

This happens when the mantis hasn't had enough to drink. I had two male idolomantis this happened to.

Fixed it by the third by ensuring they had lots of high-moisture-content prey.

 

[hysteresis]

Just for future notice then was this the mantis not getting enough water from spraying the tank down daily or the water content in its food?

Sometimes these doofuses just dont drink unless its right under them. With older nymphs, BB spikes or waxworms premolt will hydrate them. Sometimes I hand water them, a few drops at a time to ensure they drink. I dont usually have to do too much as long as I spray near them. If theyre hanging upside down, just a few drops at their feet is often enough, if you witness them drinking.

Always ensure they have enough room to flip and hang properly so as to allow proper inflation of their wings, Habitat decorations and foliage should not be allowed to interfere in this movement.

 

[Mellie mantis]

Hi, I'm so happy to have found this forum. I'm new to insect keeping and my first ever orchid mantis has just come out of molting. I am interested about what was being said about dehydration regarding the crumpled wings. My girl gets sprayed minimum 2 times per day and she drinks almost every spray. She ate right up until the day before her molt, and I made sure her flies were drinking water. I also got her to drink a bit of honey water two days before her molt ( she refused after that). And the week before her molt she ate 1/3 a water bead ( she thought it was prey). So I just feel like she had to be hydrated in addition to having proper humidity. But the tips are still crumpled. Are we allowed to post pictures? I'd love to show you what her wings looked like at 3h30 am and then at 8 am to know if you think she is still breed able. Also maybe you would have an idea of what could have happened other than water? Thanks so much! I'm trying my best to learn !

 

[Synapze]

Are we allowed to post pictures? I'd love to show you what her wings looked like at 3h30 am and then at 8 am to know if you think she is still breed able.

Certainly. Use the Attach files option and select the pic you want to share.

Crumpled wings can happen even if environmental conditions are spot on. Does she have plenty of molting space and adequate hanging areas?

 

[Mellie mantis]

Hi. Thanks sooo much for replying. I think I didn't have the option before because I'm new and hadn't yet been approved by admin.

So here are the photos. Her molt just was totally crazy. I had her enclosure all prepared for her with netting on one wall, textured leaves with lots of space underneath and perfect humidity and the mesh top that she hangs from all the time. But she got oddly restless and started crawling (not walking) on the dirt of her terrarium. She was quite engorged and not nimble and got stuck on a new growth of her spider plant on one side of her terrarium. So I got her unstuck and put her on a plant on the counter just long enough to install an extra molting strip on her mesh terrarium cover to give her the choice of two different textures of mesh to hang from.

Well before I finished putting it on and got her back in her terrarium she went and latched herself into the base of the plant. I felt in my gut that it wasn't enough room for her to hang from but I was too afraid to move her and when I tried she reacted badly. So left her. Got a matt heater under the plant for warmth, put paper towels under her saturated with water for humidity, turned up the apartment's heat so as to make sure temp was good and kept checking on her all night long. Humidity measures were great and she was hydrated as far as I can tell. I built a barrier around her and put netting over it to keep her in, just in case and hoped that she knew what she was doing.

This is the result. At 3:30 am she was out and on the side of the plant pot, as you can see in the photo. Her wings looked perfect. I realized she couldn't hang there so I put a nice stick in for her to hang from which she did. At 5 am she was still hanging. I thought everything was alright so I slept till 10. When I woke up she'd moved off the stick to this position, photo 2. Then later she crawled up onto the book wall top and refused to move. I fed her honey water. Her legs seemed so flat, like literally flat on the ground and it worried me so after a couple of hours she still hadn't budged I was crazy worried. After reading elsewhere in the forum of the importance of hanging post molt I used cotton pads to gently convince her to release her feet and she backed onto her net cover. She's been hanging ever since. It's been about 4 hours of hanging in her terrarium. She did seriously flap her wings at one point. That was encouraging.Sorry for the long story but I know the photo of her on the books is crazy. But she did it herself and I didn't know what else to do.


Do you think she can still feed herself and breed ? Mainly I just want her to have a good life but I don't want her to get egg impacted either. If I have to tweezer feed her I will. Because she's my baby. I never knew you could bond with an insect lol. But she's amazing!

Sorry again for the long post. In future I'll make sure they're short. I just love her so much and I don't want her to suffer.

Thanks for being so quick to respond! I can't wait to read through the site and get some good knowledge under my belt! Thanks again! !!

 

[Azziza22]

She looks fine, the only reason I've had to hand feed was when their front legs were damaged while molting. I'm not sure about orchids, but the other female mantises I've kept in the past rarely if ever fly because they're usually too heavy. I usually don't mess with them from the time they start their last molt until 2-3 days afterwards to make sure they have enough time to harden completely, it's really hard, but there's not much you can do once they start. I've had success intervening on occasion when they fall on the ground, but other than that I try not to disturb them (and possibly stress them) while they're molting.


It sounds like you did all you could to help her out! As far as I can see from the pictures the only damage appears to be cosmetic.

 

[Mellie mantis]

Hi, this is very strange. I replied yesterday to your comment and I can see my comment in the my content tab, but not here in the conversation. Can anyone else see my response in this thread?

Tnx!
Mélannie

 

[Synapze]

Hi, this is very strange. I replied yesterday to your comment and I can see my comment in the my content tab, but not here in the conversation. Can anyone else see my response in this thread?

Tnx!
Mélannie

I see your post.

 

[Azziza22]

Hi, this is very strange. I replied yesterday to your comment and I can see my comment in the my content tab, but not here in the conversation. Can anyone else see my response in this thread?

Tnx!
Mélannie

I can't see a response to my comment, but I did see the post before mine with the pictures

 

[Mellie mantis]

I can't see a response to my comment, but I did see the post before mine with the pictures

this is very strange indeed. I cannot see my reply to you in this thread and neither can you but it shows in my history of posts in my account activity. So odd. Has anyone else had this problem?

 

[Mellie mantis]

well, since my reply to

She looks fine, the only reason I've had to hand feed was when their front legs were damaged while molting. I'm not sure about orchids, but the other female mantises I've kept in the past rarely if ever fly because they're usually too heavy. I usually don't mess with them from the time they start their last molt until 2-3 days afterwards to make sure they have enough time to harden completely, it's really hard, but there's not much you can do once they start. I've had success intervening on occasion when they fall on the ground, but other than that I try not to disturb them (and possibly stress them) while they're molting.


It sounds like you did all you could to help her out! As far as I can see from the pictures the only damage appears to be cosmetic.

Hi Azziza22,
Since my comment to your reply to me has never shown up I am just going to repeat it here. I just wanted to thank you so much for your reassurance! I really did do my best for her but since i'm new to mantises i have NO idea what i'm doing lol so it is comforting to get some encouragement. So I just wanted to let you know that since her molt her wings have straightened out some. Not that it really matters but just thought you might want to know. Also in case this info is useful i'll post a synopsis of the conversation i had with the breeder i bought her from who got back with me Monday after she had already molted:
He said that wing crumple can be caused by almost anything. It's unpredictable and could have been for any myriad of reasons and can happen also during their growth pre-molt. He also confirmed exactly what you said that it's purely aesthetic and won't harm her in any way. And this was the most useful thing i got from our conversation. He said that you can actually move them if they've chosen a bad spot to molt as long as they haven't actually started splitting their exoskeleton. Of course stressing them should be avoided and it should only be done if absolutely necessary, but when necessary you can move them without danger, as long as they haven't actually started to split and just be really gentle with them at that point. I really hope this shows up this time, as typing it a third time doesn't sound fun. I hope you all are doing great!

 

[Mellie mantis]

Well i have bad news about the orchids. Madame Orchidée, my female with the crumpled wings is fine. But somehow, her little male partner whom I genuinely cared about, managed to escape from his side of the terrarium into her side sometime after I sprayed them this morning. And after i got done cleaning the kitchen and went to see how their humidity levels were, he was nowhere to be seen. I frantically searched his side of the terrarium and found nothing. But i did find 2 of his wings on the floor of her side and her belly looks really full. I have no idea how he managed to get over there! The lid was on correctly. And she just had 2 flies the day before yesterday! She's not even hungry! I feel awful. I just took pictures of him last week sitting on my head and looking squarely at the camera . Striking a pose after he had crawled up there from my hand. Idk why he liked to do that but he did. I'm so upset. Is it stupid to be so upset about a bug? also i feel like a failed him! how did he ever get over there!? gotta go cry over some hot chocolate now. TTYL

 

[coloradoandrea]

Well i have bad news about the orchids. Madame Orchidée, my female with the crumpled wings is fine. But somehow, her little male partner whom I genuinely cared about, managed to escape from his side of the terrarium into her side sometime after I sprayed them this morning. And after i got done cleaning the kitchen and went to see how their humidity levels were, he was nowhere to be seen. I frantically searched his side of the terrarium and found nothing. But i did find 2 of his wings on the floor of her side and her belly looks really full. I have no idea how he managed to get over there! The lid was on correctly. And she just had 2 flies the day before yesterday! She's not even hungry! I feel awful. I just took pictures of him last week sitting on my head and looking squarely at the camera . Striking a pose after he had crawled up there from my hand. Idk why he liked to do that but he did. I'm so upset. Is it stupid to be so upset about a bug? also i feel like a failed him! how did he ever get over there!? gotta go cry over some hot chocolate now. TTYL

Oh, no!! I’m so sorry that happened and of course you’re upset. It doesn’t matter what it is if you love it and you lose it, it’s hard. I lost a mantis six months ago that I only had for two week and I still get really sad about it.

 

[Synapze]

Is it stupid to be so upset about a bug? also i feel like a failed him!

No, it's not stupid at all. You didn't fail him. You loved him, cared for him, and if you raised him to adulthood... you did a good job. Many keepers find orchids difficult to raise, so don't be too rough on yourself. Love is never wasted... the world needs more.