Heat lighting length on time

Katnapper · Nov 10, 2008

I'm wondering if leaving my heat lamp on during the night will adversely affect my mantids, since they don't get the darkness of the regular day/night cycle? I'm keeping them in a bathroom for now until I figure out a better place. I keep the door shut to keep the cats out and the humidity in (I keep the sink filled with water in addition to their regular mistings). I keep the house thermostat set on 72f. But with the weather turning colder, it just seems a little cooler than the rest of the house in there without the heat lamp on sometimes, even though there is a small forced air register. The mantids are not right under the lamp, but it's always bright in there when I have it on. Do I need to turn it off to give them "night" sometimes?

PhilinYuma · Nov 10, 2008

I'm wondering if leaving my heat lamp on during the night will adversely affect my mantids, since they don't get the darkness of the regular day/night cycle? I'm keeping them in a bathroom for now until I figure out a better place. I keep the door shut to keep the cats out and the humidity in (I keep the sink filled with water in addition to their regular mistings). I keep the house thermostat set on 72f. But with the weather turning colder, it just seems a little cooler than the rest of the house in there without the heat lamp on sometimes, even though there is a small forced air register. The mantids are not right under the lamp, but it's always bright in there when I have it on. Do I need to turn it off to give them "night" sometimes?

Katnapper:

My mantises, including some exotic L4 nymphs, (yes! I bought some babies!) are doing very nicely with night time temps of 70F. Most tropical countries that I have visited had temperatures substantially lower than that at night in winter.

But if you feel more comfortable keeping the lamp on 24/7, you might consider one of the following to give your critters some zzzs:

Put any small conainers in a larger container and cover everything with a cloth at night.

According to this site: http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/course/ent425/tut...olorvision.html insects can't see red, so you might try switching to an infrared bulb in your heat lamp. The added advantage of this is that if you have to visit your mantises in the middle of the night, the toilet seat will be nice and warm. :lol:

mrblue · Nov 10, 2008

you may find part of this thread useful:

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...hythm&st=40

just pages 3 and 4 really. see what you think. personally i think it is a good idea to offer a day and night cycle (light and temp). if you are worried about the drop in night temps, maybe a heatmat would be a good idea?

Rick · Nov 10, 2008

I don't use any kind of heat lamps (why do you?) but if you are going to use them it may be useful to turn them off at night as is natural.

sidewinder · Nov 10, 2008

Rick said:
I don't use any kind of heat lamps (why do you?) but if you are going to use them it may be useful to turn them off at night as is natural.

Rick,

What do you use to keep tropical mantids at appropriate temperature and humidity levels? How would you do this if you lived in a colder area than the southeast (USA).

Scott

hibiscusmile · Nov 10, 2008

Here's my two cents! I believe they need night just like any other living creature, human or otherwise,

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

So now that we have established that,

[SIZE=12pt]As someone said on here, cover them with a towel or put them on a tv or radio or vcr or freezer that gives off heat. This way they will stay warm and still have night. Remember the night is always cooler than the day even in the desert

[/SIZE]

sidewinder · Nov 10, 2008

Let's say you don't have a TV, VCR, freezer, etc. to put your mantid enclosures on. What do you use then? Do you use a heat source from the bottom or side? What kind of heat source? Do you use incandescent or fluorescent lights? The former provide heat while the latter does not. But, if you lighting to provide heat, what do you do at night?

Scott

hibiscusmile · Nov 10, 2008

I use room temp for most of mine, some have to have heat tape and I turn it down at night and up in the day. ps, if no one has any of those electric thingies, they are probably better off not worring about a mantis needs, they need to take care of theirselves first. And if worse comes to worse, put the little fella under your shirt, body heat is fab! :lol:

sidewinder · Nov 10, 2008

hibiscusmile said:
I use room temp for most of mine, some have to have heat tape and I turn it down at night and up in the day. ps, if no one has any of those electric thingies, they are probably better off not worring about a mantis needs, they need to take care of theirselves first. And if worse comes to worse, put the little fella under your shirt, body heat is fab! :lol:

Rebecca,

Room temperature doesn't work well for tropical species if the temperature drops into the low 60's and high 50's F at night, does it? And I was referring to people that don't want their mantids on top of their appliances...it can look a little tacky. What then? Should heat come from the sides or the bottom of the enclosure? Should the light source provide heat? If you you use the light source to provide heat what should be done at night when the light is off?

Does anyone here use a quality thermostat (e.g. Herpstat) to control heating devices so night and day temperatures are well controlled?

By the way, I am asking for opinions from anyone here, not just Rebecca or Rick.

Scott

mrblue · Nov 10, 2008

salomonis said:
Rebecca,Room temperature doesn't work well for tropical species if the temperature drops into the low 60's and high 50's F at night, does it? And I was referring to people that don't want their mantids on top of their appliances...it can look a little tacky. What then? Should heat come from the sides or the bottom of the enclosure? Should the light source provide heat? If you you use the light source to provide heat what should be done at night when the light is off?

Does anyone here use a quality thermostat (e.g. Herpstat) to control heating devices so night and day temperatures are well controlled?

By the way, I am asking for opinions from anyone here, not just Rebecca or Rick.

Scott

i can only speak for myself in terms of the climate in this country (london/england/uk), the room temperatures of my house and the mantids i keep but room temperature on its own is not enough for some species, certainly not in autumn and winter. i have lamps on during the day providing heat and light. i also have heatmats on 24/7. i have never used a thermostat but i have a thermometer that records highs and lows, so every so often i can monitor the highs and lows of the mantis containers to see what kind of temps they are reaching during the day and night. once i have it setup, i dont really have any need for a thermostat.

Katnapper · Nov 10, 2008

I guess I'm just paranoid they'll get too cold and die...

they're so little and don't have any way to warm themselves... they're dependent on me to keep them at the right temps.

Thank you all for the information, opinions, and links... it's all been helpful to me. I've decided I need to quit being so worried about them freezing to death. It's not like I keep the house frigid. I guess I'm just inexperienced and don't want anything to happen to them. But as has been suggested, night time is naturally cooler; and it's really been worrying me when I keep the light on overnight, and not give them the darkness of natural night. So off the lights go at night. Thank you all again... it eases my mind.

Oh, just in case it makes a difference.... I've got Carolina adults, a Chinese adult, Ghost nymphs, Giant Asian nymphs, and Giant Shield nymphs. It's the tropical species/nymphs that I always worry about. :huh:

sidewinder · Nov 11, 2008

Katnapper,

No, I don't think you are paranoid at all. I think you should be concerned with day/night temperatures, the humidity, and the photoperiod to which you expose your tropical mantids. Local species are less of an issue. But, for best results with local and tropical species, you should duplicate what the species sees in their natural environment.

Based on data found in The Praying Mantids for tropical species that live near the equator, this means 12 to 13 hour long days and 11 to 12 hour long nights. It means 28° to 30° C during the day with a 5° to 7° C drop at night. The relative humidity levels should be in the 50 to 70% range for nymphs and slightly less for adults. Misting is essential. Air turnover is important too. For some species, emulating dawn and dusk may be important as well.

Can tropical mantids live without such precise care? Sure. But will they do their best? No way. Will they breed successfully? Maybe. But they will not be as prolific as they could be and breeding successfully over multiple generations may be an issue.

I am sure glad I have a HerpStat Pro thermostat to use. I just have to figure out what I am going to use to heat my mantid enclosures.

Scott

PhilinYuma · Nov 11, 2008

salomonis said:
I am sure glad I have a HerpStat Pro thermostat to use. I just have to figure out what I am going to use to heat my mantid enclosures.

Scott

Wow, Scott! Those things cost around $300-400 before you hook them up to a heat source, don't they? How many tropicals do you plan on keeping?

Good news Katnapper!

It was about 67F in my place last night, without any heat, but by the time that I got back from walking the dog, my Ghost nymphs were eating flies and chatting as though nothing unusual had happened. It probably hadn't. I Googled Madagascar high and low temps and got two sets of readings, according to elevation. The lows were between 50F-60F at higher elevations and 65F-75F around sea level during the winter. I don't know whether there are any nymphs around at that time of year, but since these were average monthly temps, the actual temp may be five degrees lower or so on any given night. Generally, I think, the practice of those who are breeding them here is the the best guide.

Rick · Nov 11, 2008

salomonis said:
Rick,What do you use to keep tropical mantids at appropriate temperature and humidity levels? How would you do this if you lived in a colder area than the southeast (USA).

Scott

I don't use anything. Never have. My mantis room is also my computer room. Sure it cools down at night but it also does in the wild.

sidewinder · Nov 11, 2008

PhilinYuma,

My point was that keepers should take care to provide appropriate temperature, humidity, and photoperiod for their mantids.

One shouldn't keep mantids at the same temperature all the time. They shouldn't be exposed to light 24 hours a day. Putting them on top of an appliance may not be the best thing to do.

If we want the mantids to thrive and reproduce, it is best to make a serious effort to get the environment correct. I was looking through the older posts on this topic and I see that I am not the first person to mention this. I suppose I too will face the same response these other people got and, like them, determine not bother to mentioned it again since it appears futile to do so.

The HerpStat Pro thermostat was something I had from another endeavor. At most it will handle four enclosures. Two if you use it to control the lights. And, for what it does, it is a bargain at ~$300!

S-

mrblue · Nov 11, 2008

salomonis said:
If we want the mantids to thrive and reproduce, it is best to make a serious effort to get the environment correct. I was looking through the older posts on this topic and I see that I am not the first person to mention this. I suppose I too will face the same response these other people got and, like them, determine not bother to mentioned it again since it appears futile to do so.

i dont know what posts you mean but i completely agree.

hibiscusmile · Nov 11, 2008

I totally agree too!

PhilinYuma · Nov 11, 2008

hibiscusmile said:
I totally agree too!

Seven more needed for a minyan!

Orin · Nov 13, 2008

Mantids may have no problem adjusting to constant daylight but I don't know that anyone has studied that parameter or for what possible reason.

Room temperature is usually qualified as 72-75 degreees Fahrenheit. If you keep your tropical or temperate species cooler than that they usually don't do very well. Some people keep their houses at 58F to save money, that's not room temperature.

Heat lighting length on time

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