2008:Noah's Ark FOUND? Who Was informed?
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StevieHification
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Also you can't forget Pastafarian either.
lunarstorm
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Precarious
Well-known member
It's not about me subverting anything. I didn't write those gospel passages. And I certainly hold no direct power over the state of the world, and it was to that the answer to my question hinges upon. Instead of blaming those who hold the power you instead blame me. Instead of looking to the groups that have failed you, you will blame me.
I have found both the meaning and purpose, and I enthusiastically embrace it. What I've written here does nothing to denigrate the message of the New Testament. It's only your version of it that has suffered. And any story we cling to is disposable, as are all WORDS. But LOGOS is eternal.
We can see the fruit of the powerful organization that control society, and have for so long, all around us, and it doesn't look good. 2,000 years is a long time to effect change and that mission was forfeited to the gullibility of the people on all levels. Religion is one of those levels. The inability of the those crippled by atrophied critical thought processes are more to blame, even as victims of their own intellectual and spiritual sloth, than myself, who actually looked into things, identified the problem, and took the time to inform you.
I can tell you are hurt and I am sorry. The truth is painful. Realizing something we thought was the answer is instead a deep riddle is a horrible experience, but one we must all weather in order to find truth. It's worth the trouble. But instead of seeing that what I'm saying does make sense, even within the context of your own texts (I used no Gnostic texts), and deserves investigation, you will blame the messenger. Sounds like a familiar scenario.
I'm thankful Papal authority has corrupted its own base of power or I would have been burned at the stake by now. But there is no honor among thieves and grubby hands, never getting enough, devour even themselves.
Peace to you, Orin.
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Well, this is probably my final post on this extremely well attended and entertaining thread. I doubt that anyone converted anyone else, but that is par for the course. I was rather sad, Orin, that you saw the debate, which i thought was the advocates of religion, any religion, against the apostate, against the goyim against the giaur, as "Christian bashing". Actually, Christians in the US do pretty well. I don't think that a Jewish or Muslim or an Atheist U.S. president is on the horizon, and it is Muslims, not Christians who get profiled and insulted by ladies on the internet. Until recently, one Christian sect, not yours of course, referred to Jewry as the "perfidious jew", I'm sure that no one speaks of "perfidious Christians". I mention this only in the hope that we atheists/agnostics have persuaded you that much as we may disbelieve in yr relligion, just as you disbelieve in the religion of all other sects, we have no animus against its practitioners, and certainly not you.
Indeed the opposite is the case, at least for me. I have always been delightedto be invited to the religious festivals of my friends. Over half a century ago, in London, I celebrated Eid-ul-Fitr, the feast that ends the fast of Ramadan with a bunch of Pushtu friends (and I remember celebrating it with you and your brother and father , Mija habibi, wherever you may be). The salah is supposed to be said in a field or open place and we ended up on the (flat!) roof of the hotel where we were boarding. We sang songs and imbibed rather non Muslim beverages until about 0300, when we heard the urgent sound of a police car and decided that discretion was the better part of valor. I have attended midnight mass and walked home in the snow in Chicago singing Latin carols: "Adeste fideles, laudum triumphantes" which is about what you'd expect from a group in the 43rd ward. Today, I took a carton of frozen chicken livers and some schmaltz to Sunny's house and we made chopped liver on rye. Sunny's mom lit the first menorah candle of Chonokah and we sung the apropriate prayer, "Baruch atah Adonai, Elohainu Melech Ha-Olam"
followed by the Israeli national anthem (it was lifted from Smetna's Moldau, so I couldn't go wrong, even though I didn't know the words) and a seriously good time was had by all, not because I believed in the religion behind the ceremonies, but because I believed in and loved the people.
So Happy Holidays to all, and may you all find the truth and comfort that you seek.
Indeed the opposite is the case, at least for me. I have always been delightedto be invited to the religious festivals of my friends. Over half a century ago, in London, I celebrated Eid-ul-Fitr, the feast that ends the fast of Ramadan with a bunch of Pushtu friends (and I remember celebrating it with you and your brother and father , Mija habibi, wherever you may be). The salah is supposed to be said in a field or open place and we ended up on the (flat!) roof of the hotel where we were boarding. We sang songs and imbibed rather non Muslim beverages until about 0300, when we heard the urgent sound of a police car and decided that discretion was the better part of valor. I have attended midnight mass and walked home in the snow in Chicago singing Latin carols: "Adeste fideles, laudum triumphantes" which is about what you'd expect from a group in the 43rd ward. Today, I took a carton of frozen chicken livers and some schmaltz to Sunny's house and we made chopped liver on rye. Sunny's mom lit the first menorah candle of Chonokah and we sung the apropriate prayer, "Baruch atah Adonai, Elohainu Melech Ha-Olam"
followed by the Israeli national anthem (it was lifted from Smetna's Moldau, so I couldn't go wrong, even though I didn't know the words) and a seriously good time was had by all, not because I believed in the religion behind the ceremonies, but because I believed in and loved the people.
So Happy Holidays to all, and may you all find the truth and comfort that you seek.
Sorry Phil, I shouldn't have mentioned it since it seemed to be in reference to this thread but wasn't. Peter mentioned unrepresented views and I was referring to past threads I've observed to explain that on this forum at least Christianity has been the underdog. Did you know the first historical reference to the celebration of the rededication of the temple or the feast of lights known as various spellings of Chanukah was by Jesus in the New Testament?
Precarious- I don't think I would say hurt exactly. I am sad that your lack of understanding is masked by your feelings of intellectual superiority and that I can't help you. Maybe I feed bad because I'm not 100% certain the hours it would take to explain your misinformation would be wasted but I choose to err on the side of near certainty.
Precarious- I don't think I would say hurt exactly. I am sad that your lack of understanding is masked by your feelings of intellectual superiority and that I can't help you. Maybe I feed bad because I'm not 100% certain the hours it would take to explain your misinformation would be wasted but I choose to err on the side of near certainty.
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Precarious
Well-known member
Not to beat a dead horse, but I just stumbled onto these quotes that really are too good not to share. 
"And Satan stood up against Israel, and incited David to number Israel."
1 Chronicles 21:1
"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah"
2 Samuel 24:1
The original Samuel texts says "Jehovah" which they translated as "the LORD". So here you have two versions of the same story contained in the Old Testament. One sites Satan as the character involved. The other sites Jehovah. I don't know what else to say about it. Read it for yourself.
http://bible.cc/1_chronicles/21-1.htm
http://bible.cc/2_samuel/24-1.htm
Then do yourself a favor and read the commentaries below each version to see how the oppologists try to cover for the interchangeable use of the words "Satan" and "the LORD". Fun stuff!
And remember...
Old Testament: Rape, murder, destruction, darkness
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
Psalm 137:9
"Jehovah is a Man of War, Jehovah is his name."
Exodus 15:3
"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives raped."
Isaiah 13:15-16
"And the people stood far off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was."
Exodus 20:21
New Testament: Love, mercy, forgiveness, light
"The thief (Jehovah) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."
John 10:10
"You have heard that it was said (by Jehovah), 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."
Matthew 5:43-45
"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God (obviously not the children of Jehovah)."
Matthew 5:9
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that (unlike Jehovah) God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:5
Does it sound like Jesus was representing Jehovah or denying him? Seriously...
End trasmision.
"And Satan stood up against Israel, and incited David to number Israel."
1 Chronicles 21:1
"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah"
2 Samuel 24:1
The original Samuel texts says "Jehovah" which they translated as "the LORD". So here you have two versions of the same story contained in the Old Testament. One sites Satan as the character involved. The other sites Jehovah. I don't know what else to say about it. Read it for yourself.
http://bible.cc/1_chronicles/21-1.htm
http://bible.cc/2_samuel/24-1.htm
Then do yourself a favor and read the commentaries below each version to see how the oppologists try to cover for the interchangeable use of the words "Satan" and "the LORD". Fun stuff!
And remember...
Old Testament: Rape, murder, destruction, darkness
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
Psalm 137:9
"Jehovah is a Man of War, Jehovah is his name."
Exodus 15:3
"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives raped."
Isaiah 13:15-16
"And the people stood far off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was."
Exodus 20:21
New Testament: Love, mercy, forgiveness, light
"The thief (Jehovah) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."
John 10:10
"You have heard that it was said (by Jehovah), 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."
Matthew 5:43-45
"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God (obviously not the children of Jehovah)."
Matthew 5:9
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that (unlike Jehovah) God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
1 John 1:5
Does it sound like Jesus was representing Jehovah or denying him? Seriously...
End trasmision.
ah well.. people alter and reinterpret their religions to suit the spirit of the times (and the progress of empirical knowledge). What that has to say about the credibility of it all, i do not know and am not qualified to comment.
The only thing impressive about your quotes is that you think your misinterpretations hold any merit. You can't just insert words to change the text and pretend to understand meanings with no context. Repaying your enemies with kindness comes from the Old Testament though most people credit the idea to Jesus.
