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sporeworld

sporeworld

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Isn't there some way for a forum like this to generate/maintain species specific caresheets...?

I know just for Idolos, I've easily put in 12 hours of research just to get a consensus on temps and humidity levels. Seems like a forum with this level of credibility and participation could engineer a way to pull this off. I've seen lots of caresheets on the web, but there's no sense of how credible or reliable they are. And I'm think something like a wiki is prone to tampering (maybe - I'm not that tech-savvy).

A "MantidForum.Net Brand Care Sheet" with comments and discussions afterwards would seem like a smart next step. I feel badly for the new hobbyist (because I am/was one) who needs to gun through volumes of text to find just the right humidity levels (and that's STILL debated).

I'd love to see something like Netflix has for movies: ratings, info, trailers(?)... you get a real good feel for the movie before comitting to watching it. You can read other members reviews (like "Philinyuma sez: Use a Deli-Cup", or Hibiscusmile sez "Give them love and Blue Bottles"... something like that). Even a "Mantids You'll Love" section - if you liked "Giant Asian" you'll LOVE "Double Shield".

Has anyone seen something like this on other forums...? Do we have people here that are techie enough to pull it off...?

 
A species specific care and breeding sections,with personal observations and log info? I am all for that ,...

mantisplace.com has a good start on specific species care,but not much info out there on mateing and breeding and ooth care (other than general info) (unless a discussion on the forum,which often gets off topic)

dont get me wrong there is a wealth of helpful information on this site ,but finding it is a challenge

 
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I agree Mark, we should have a defined set of info on most all species by now? a least a pinned section for newbies as well as more seasoned keepers to fall back on and or learn.

I think Peter, Orin or Rick may have to set the parameters on something like this though. and that will take a few PM's from us to get the ball rolling. ;)

 
I hope to have it on my new site soon, problem is it takes time to do these things, and the men who run this forum have to work at their jobs and other things going on in their lives, like Rick goes to school, so between home and work and whatever they really can't find the time I am sure for the extras, it would take quite a while to do it. I am sure it would be nice, and maybe in time we can all help with it, we will see what they say. ps, just me butting in, cause I know it is hard to juggle all the things in our daily lives. ;)

 
While I think that it is a great idea, I still have some fears that can crop up.

Say in the advanced section we list what types of enclosures are to be used. This could lead to a hot topic or debate.

In the case of Idolos, I'm quite sure that many members would disagree to start using glass enclosure that are modified to their needs, regardless that in Asia and some members here have had great success with such setups. I could see like on the chameleon forum an "unwritten rule" for the beginner that might not be truly correct...ie: chameleons can only be housed in screen cages or screen cages are easier for the beginner, both of witch are not true at all.

In other words, are we to post what I call old ways of doing things or maybe post some of the new ways when it comes to advancements in our hobby? And who is to say what is correct?

After all, for some, glass enclosures might be too difficult due to the humidity levels at that persons house. While a soft net enclosure might be best.

To use a heat light or not also depends on the environment they may live in too. So a cold home may be fine, yet a warmer one may be unnecessary.

Yet to not speak about such issues in an advanced section would be a disservice for a newbie like myself who is looking to learn far more then just the simple basics.

Just my 2 cents

Harry

 
I have been thinking about this. As well as pins for breeding and keeping feeders.

I think if we, as a forum, took one species at a time we could probably do more than we think. The first few will take some time, but once we have a method and a plan, they should come along faster.

Some members who are more used to science writing will be able to handle the disagreements easily enough to make a final product that acknowledges different opinions among breeders. Even if the writer is biased.

 
Yeah, I'm sure we're not the first forum to have controversial material, so it's just a matter of looking to see how others have solved it.

Maybe contentious categories would read:

Humidity: 20% at night, 65% day time*

============================================

* Opinions vary greatly on the need for high humidity. See "Why I Don't Spray My Deli Cups" thread for more details.

That, or maybe a few credible reviewers or breeders with a little icon next to the category: "Phil sez: No more than 30%".

Dunno. Like Hibiscusmile mentioned, we'd need the right people with the right resources. Not sure what we have in our collective talent pool. I'm happy to pitch in IF I can and with WHAT I can. Just let me know...

 
The truth is, it is the recurring discussions of previously covered material that keeps this forum alive, year after year.

If we were to create a single topic on, say, Idolomantis, the thread would soon become 762 posts long. I don't want to sort through that for the answers to my questions. Creating a sub-forum specifically for "Idolomantis" would also be less interesting than the hodge podge we sometimes have to wade through (surprising ourselves by other interesting topics on care for species we're not personally keeping, but which still may apply to those we are, for example). Since only a handful of people are working with Idolomantis in the US at any given time, very few posts might make it onto these sections of the forum. Conversely, since so many people raise Tenodera, we might have a preponderance of posts on a topic that really only needs one good post.

Instead of searching the forum for hours and reading hours worth of material, why not just get directly involved and post your questions on the forum? That's what it's here for. If you want to lurk, that's fine too. Previous posts will always be accessible via the search feature.

All the proposed ideas are good ones, but Mantidforum is arguably the most successful forum dedicated to a specific insect group in the history of the internet. Our hobby thrives on community, not expediency of information exchanged. Reinventing the wheel can be tempting, but we have to be careful about implementing new ideas into a system that historically works so well. If you look at the average membership-age of the participants in this discussion you will see that they average about a year, or less (except our curve-breaker, Rebecca).

As pointed out, there is much information on the web to sort through and much to sort through on the archived posts on this forum. When you go into a classroom as a new student, you don't just bury your nose in a book written two years ago. You read the book, ask questions and listen to your peers and teachers. You also get your hands dirty on the laboratory table. Experience remains the best teacher.

 
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Bah! (Spoken humorously - you have to picture me waving my hand dismissively...) :)

I respectfully disagree with some of your (Peter) points - mostly from a marketing perspective.

I think the average membership-age can be improved dramatically on the short end by easier access to information - the "zero to one-day" members moving towards several months (and several species). I've dodged many prospective hobbies over the years because the barrier to entry was either too great or I felt doomed to failure. And if my first foray into mantids had ended in disaster, I might have just moved on. Because mantisplace provided me easy to digest info without complication, I ultimately WAS successful, and moved on through dozens of species (and remain fiercely loyal to the people who gave be reasoned and friendly advice).

I'm guessing (since I have no stats to work with) that the typical new "lurker" comes here because:

a. they found, or were given a "pet" by a neighbor or child, and now have T-minus 20 minutes to figure things out,

b. they want to relive fond mantid memories from childhood (probably triggered by "a" above),

c. they've moved on, or added to, an existing hobby (reptiles, phasmids, etc).

In all but the last case, the new-bug-lover may have had ZERO experience with ANY type of animal husbandry, or like me, had almost NO experience with forums (waaaaaaaaaay more common than you might imagine).

Also, although many of the authorities on this forum appear to be quite scholarly, that same tone can be off-putting to someone just trying to be decent folk, and keep their kid's new bug alive - for just a few weeks more. This is EXACTLY my brother's tale. He simply doesn't have time to check webpages (and, just to underline my point above, had never even HEARD of a "forum"). And he doesn't want to do research on this project, or make a hobby out of this. Of course, as I mentioned above, if he's successful, I think he WILL make a hobby out of it, and may even participate on this very forum. The more photos I send of MY bugs to his kid, the more he has to hear "I want one of those like Uncle Mark has!). Yeah... he'll be hooked.

You wrote, "Instead of searching the forum for hours and reading hours worth of material, why not just get directly involved and post your questions on the forum?". I think that's the right sentiment, but not timely. In example (a) above, there's a mantis in a jar on his desk and his kid is tossing the mantis fire ants as play-pals! Ideally, he'd get a quick care sheet from a google search and report back her with specific questions (like, "WHY is my mantis running away from those fire ants...?").

That same google search would NOT directly bring him HERE. But since, mantisplace DOES appear on the first page of that search, I'll admit that the best approach MAY just be to let "the market" do the work - let the sellers create a breeder-based caresheet approach. Then maybe just a pinned topic of "Mantis Caresheet Links" directing readers to the latest-greatest caresheets DIRECT from the breeders. If mantisplace, for instance, had the most credible looking page and the best info, I think that's where the market would go - I suspect they will NOT be solely price-driven for their first run.

In any case, the opening page of this forum says "...Through the doorway below, you can read posts and learn all the care requirements for these interesting and unique pets...". I think that's a great approach - very inviting to the newbie. I also think it makes for a very noble endeavor on our collective parts - to actually provide "all the care requirements" needed for these "truly unique pets".

Look forward to your feedback... but be gentle - I come in peace... :)

 
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It is something I have thought about many times. Except for a few species the vast majority of mantid species can be kept under basically the same conditions. Due to this a care sheet would only need give the very basics of mantis care. And most people have their own way of doing things, I know I do. I believe a very basic care sheet could be constructed and maybe even a few for those specific species that really need special conditions. Like Peter said, this forum is a great resource for care advice. An internet search is almost worthless when it comes to mantis care. Most of the info out there is incorrect as well.

 
I agree with Rick. Any type of necessary special care is almost always a popular thread (i.e. Idolomantis). In my experiences, every mantid so far has been very hardy. Even my violins were kept at 75-80 degrees with no special conditions except flying food. Having to search for stuff has led me down different paths (sometimes for hours) but helped contribute to more knowlege.

 
So it seems maybe a pinned care sheet that is labeled on top "Please use your better judgment or contact a more advanced member as this information will vary depending on your conditions and geographical location" may work? but I do understand Peters view that diving in to the whole pie can taste pretty good and in the end give you more knowledge than one page can offer.

It comes down to how much time you have to burn to obtain the info your looking for I guess.

But Hey I'm basically a newbie here so what do I know. :)

 
All very interesting and good points, we shall just plod on!

on the other hand, this is my first forum I was ever on, and here is where I learned, I have done a couple things wrong and was pointed in the right direction, so my forum manners are from here, and this is really :eek:fftopic: so ignore me, yesterday cooking for family and the 14 hour day did me in and I don't know what I am talking about any longer :surrender:

 
Yeah, a few hours of sleep and a clear head makes me think that maybe a minimal approach would be best. Again, to reference my experience with silkmoths, I foud this page http://butterflywebsite.com/articles/lizday/moth.html and it was very nearly everything I needed to know to get moving. Pictures and videos and more all would have been great, but this was sufficient. So maybe just a "You have your first mantis - Now what...?" kind of thing.

 
We could also leverage our position to work on getting common names for some of the species that lack them.

It takes time to get them in common use. But we might as well work at it.

 
I must say I find the argument "most mantids have basically the same care" quite annoying.

I want to know what is good for my species, I don't want to know what is good for most and hope that what I have is not an exception.

 
Peter J F said:
I must say I find the argument "most mantids have basically the same care" quite annoying.

I want to know what is good for my species, I don't want to know what is good for most and hope that what I have is not an exception.
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Rick has been saying the same thing for years, and I was pretty irritated myself, first time I saw it, but over the past cuppla years I've seen that is true.

I keep all of my "exotic" mantids in the same room with the same temp and RH in either 32oz pots or 12"net cubes and feed them all the largest food they will take.I let them molt in peace and shoot for a breeding colony with a M:F 2:1 ratio, separate the males and females until I mate them and do that in the toilet with the seat down, after sunset. Often they lay fertile ooths, sometimes not, so I try again. And that's about it. I talk to the breeder who sold me the ooth or fry and ask for help with any problems I'm having, and they have always been free with good advice.

Remember, little preteen boys and girls and and ancient, half-blind old farts are managing to do this quite successfully, so it can't be that hard!

 
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Peter J F said:
I must say I find the argument "most mantids have basically the same care" quite annoying.

I want to know what is good for my species, I don't want to know what is good for most and hope that what I have is not an exception.
Click to expand...
Annoying or not it is the truth. It is impractical to make a care sheet for every species in the hobby especially when almost all of them require the same basic care. Why on earth would you make a seperate care sheet for let's say a chinese mantis and a giant asian mantis? Care is the same. Except for size, many other species could go right in with the care for those two. Those that really need exceptions would have a different care sheet.

Care sheets would not be all inclusive anyways. What annoys me is it seems a large amount of people can't seem to use their own brains and come up with something on their own. Every little aspect of care requirements has to be spelled out for some people.

 
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