Deacon
Well-known member
Yeah, well my mantids are pawing at the front glass saying, "Feed me!" I'm trying not to look at them 
Help! What is my mated girl oozing?
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Just give them a mist of water, by now though as it's a new day (and fed nothing yesterday) you can fed themYeah, well my mantids are pawing at the front glass saying, "Feed me!" I'm trying not to look at them
Deacon
Well-known member
Freda still has that big clump of ooth matter on her and I don't see how she can pass frass. I can no longer see her prolapse but it looks like on of her cerci has blackened. And, hardly eating (on purpose), she is fattening up again. Otherwise, she is active. Can't be good, I wouldn't think...
The darkened cerci does sound alarming. Not sure why she has ooth material still stuck to her, as she should have already cleaned it off herself. You may want to try misting the stuck ooth material and see if you can very delicately help her remove it, or break it up a bit. I'll be honest I haven't had a female with stuck ooth material on them before, perhaps it has something to do with the prolapse.
Deacon
Well-known member
Thomas, sorry for the delay in responding (mom in hospital and now nursing home and taking all my time) but I can give you an update. I did wet her rump down. Finally noticed her trying to kick it off and gave her a gentle hand. Did not note any green prolapse but the next day she had a bubble on one side. The one cerci remains black---other one is normal-looking---and yesterday, she layed her fourth ooth which is the same as her others but 1/3" smaller (and she wasn't bloated as feeding her less.) So she layed her first ooth at 30 days and the others spaced at 22, 23, and 20 days between. Today, she has two large blobs of ooth stuck on her and eating BB's. Sturdy girl despite her afflictions!
No worries, I hope all is going as well as can be expected.
Glad to see you mantid girl is pulling through, and sadly it seems the ooth blob/pieces are going to be a normal thing for her. Just wet the stuck material as you did before and delicately help remove it the best you can.
The smaller ooth is likely as it is one of her later ooths (4th one) and they tend to get smaller the more they lay. That said if she is looking good otherwise, there is no problem with a few extra flies every now and then - it might help boost the ooths a bit too.
Deacon
Well-known member
Thomas, I tried wetting her rump but can't dislodge the last of the ooth matter. She is getting gravid again (she and the male are 112 days-old). He's in rough shape as his arms and legs are failing so I gave him a bunch of plastic seaweed plant with more grabbing hooks and he is staying in it. Actually ate part of a waxworm this morning that he wedged into the plant so he didn't have to hold it. He is such a squirt. Have to wait and see if Freda can lay another ooth with so much going wrong with her rump
Wow, I brushed over something on my laptop and the script changed and I can't get it to go back! I'm hoping it will self-heal when I hit the reply button!
Edit--Yay, it did!
Wow, I brushed over something on my laptop and the script changed and I can't get it to go back! I'm hoping it will self-heal when I hit the reply button!
Edit--Yay, it did!
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If you are not having any luck this time, perhaps she isn't affected by it - have you seen her trying to clean it off? If not, I'd just let it be. Sadly many mantids do fall apart as they age, and males are the first to go (usually 1-3 months before the females). If he is eating at least he should be sticking around for awhile yet.
I hope Freda has no issues with her next ooth, but time will tell. Sorry to see you had such trouble with your current batch of mantids. Hopefully the next generation will go without a hitch for you.
I hope Freda has no issues with her next ooth, but time will tell. Sorry to see you had such trouble with your current batch of mantids. Hopefully the next generation will go without a hitch for you.
Deacon
Well-known member
Thomas, of the eight remaining mantids, three are in their eighties (days-old) and three are 105 to 114. My youngest are the Sphodromantids who are 49 and 52 days-old. She is gravid and still waiting for her first ooth but they stare at each other all the time. I keep waiting for her to lay her ooth and then I think I will allow them to mate. I would do it now but from what I've read on the forum, the females don't seem cooperative when they are gravid. I'd rather not lose him as they are the last pair (well except for the 114 day-old Budwings but they both have problems now so I'd never consider them---eventhough they are very sweet mantids.
I can't speak from experience on trying to breed a gravid female, as I always breed them after 24+ hours after laying a ooth; however, it does make sense that a gravid female would be less responsive to breeding and more defensive while being gravid. That said I have read of some keepers trying to breed right up to the time females lay their ooths.
With just a single male left, and her ooth will most likely be infertile no matter the outcome if you tried now, it would be best to just wait until she lays her current ooth. Better safe than sorry.
Deacon
Well-known member
Thanks for that info, Thomas.
Off topic: I'm having that issue with another post that when I try to reply, it pops up the old post---like that day you said you had already answered my question? So, I'll give you the answer here: My Popa spurca, Daisy, layed her first ooth at 34 days and she is now 83 days-old. Aside from that, my Dbl shield layed her first at 33 days, and is now 86 days-old. So, same routine for them. My funny little Ghost waited 79 days to lay her first and has now layed three in the last 25 days--the last one yesterday was twice as big as the first two! The Budwing layed her first at 30 days, and has produced ooths about every three weeks since then (four total). My Sphodromantis is 49 days old with no ooth yet. Looks like there is no pattern at all. These are all different species. Wonder if they were the same species if their laying patterns would be similar to each other?
Off topic: I'm having that issue with another post that when I try to reply, it pops up the old post---like that day you said you had already answered my question? So, I'll give you the answer here: My Popa spurca, Daisy, layed her first ooth at 34 days and she is now 83 days-old. Aside from that, my Dbl shield layed her first at 33 days, and is now 86 days-old. So, same routine for them. My funny little Ghost waited 79 days to lay her first and has now layed three in the last 25 days--the last one yesterday was twice as big as the first two! The Budwing layed her first at 30 days, and has produced ooths about every three weeks since then (four total). My Sphodromantis is 49 days old with no ooth yet. Looks like there is no pattern at all. These are all different species. Wonder if they were the same species if their laying patterns would be similar to each other?
Regarding the forum, I have that happen from time to time for me as well. It seems for whatever reason since the v4 update it saves your last response, I assume it is so you can resume a reply if something happens (internet kicks you off, power outage, etc); however, it seems to have a bug as even though a message is sent, it will re-show the reply anyway. I've even had it show some really old ones once in awhile when it happens too.
Like your Ghost, that tends to be how any adult females I had were (Carolina's, Chinese, Ghosts, Egyptian Pygmy, etc.). A bit over a month in as an adult they lay their first ooth, and lay another ooth about every week (7 to 10 days). Then as they grow older it tends to only add a few more days in the time frame between ooths, until they near the end of laying their last ooths then it usually is their longest in time.
Perhaps your girls are just being stubborn, or simply normal for their species as I haven't kept any as adults.
In the dozens of Carolina females, and dozens of Chinese females, about 30 each as adults - those all seem to have a normal schedule, or laying pattern, of making ooths. The Carolina's tend to average 8 days between ooths, and the Chinese average about 11 days between ooths.
The exotics tend to take longer, with my Acromantis japonica however the fastest at 10 days on average between ooths. My current Ghost averages 19 days between ooths (just finished her 4th). My Egyptian pygmy (Miomantis paykullii) was somewhere around 20 days between ooths.
mantisman 230
Well-known member
Obese can also be a really gravid female though Had a female like that and she laid an ooth half her size
Had a female like that and she laid an ooth half her size Sure there are exceptions to that, as it is just a basic guideline.Obese can also be a really gravid female though
That is kind of the point behind it, adjust it as needed.
Deacon
Well-known member
Well, Freda, Budwing, layed her fifth ooth today. Considering her anal prolapse, the left-over ooth on her from last time, and the desicated cerci she is doing really well. Yes, her rump is covered in ooth matter again/still. Guess this girl just dosen't know how to clean up! I'm going to wet her today while it is fresh and see if she can kick it off now instead of waiting til it is hardened off. This last ooth is half the size of her biggest and she looks as skinny as I've ever seen her although according to your beautiful chart she is still "plump" as her side slit is visible.
So, Thomas, I'm glad to know it is not just me who gets stuck in repeating replies.
And, mantisman 230, I do have three obese females who need to lay their ooths. I feed them much less, but they stay fat!
So, Thomas, I'm glad to know it is not just me who gets stuck in repeating replies.
And, mantisman 230, I do have three obese females who need to lay their ooths. I feed them much less, but they stay fat!
mantisman 230
Well-known member
Even in that state, my fuscas ate adult male dubia roaches xD, some species can be "power fed" to speed them up for molting. My subadult griffin female is super fat, but is also starting to thicken her wingbuds. I typically do this for subadults because you feed them once and then they ride out the instar until adult. Without prey items to bother them, they are less stressed close to molting.
Deacon
Well-known member
Mantisman 230,
When my mantids were younger, I never thought about over-feeding. I mean, they make their own decisions in the wild (granted, they don't have someone bringing them food every day!) So it wasn't until they became adults (I'm only referring to the females as none of the males have ever gotten fat) that I've had issues with obese mantids with prolapsed anuses (three of eight females). Now I am spooked about allowing the girls too much food---even though they still stay fat on diets. And the dubias, OMG, they just keep producing and I don't feel like I can feed them to my big girls anymore! (I need to find someone with about ten adult beardies who can take the roaches off my hands either that or they are going in the freezer!)
When my mantids were younger, I never thought about over-feeding. I mean, they make their own decisions in the wild (granted, they don't have someone bringing them food every day!) So it wasn't until they became adults (I'm only referring to the females as none of the males have ever gotten fat) that I've had issues with obese mantids with prolapsed anuses (three of eight females). Now I am spooked about allowing the girls too much food---even though they still stay fat on diets. And the dubias, OMG, they just keep producing and I don't feel like I can feed them to my big girls anymore! (I need to find someone with about ten adult beardies who can take the roaches off my hands either that or they are going in the freezer!)
Glad to her Freda is still doing well and got another ooth laid successfully. You are right on that, before it has a chance to harden would be a good time to try to clean it off. No problem, plump is where you want them to be, and after laying a ooth she is bound to be really hungry.
Yeah, it is a strange issue with the stuck replies. At least it is easy enough to remove usually by selecting it all and deleting it.
You may see if your local pet stores are interested in buying your excess Dubias, as many are always looking for a bargain. If nothing else do a store credit, your likely get more, and you can use it to get things you would need anyway. It's always nice if you can make the hobby pay for itself.
Definitely another reason to switch to cockroaches, as no matter what guide I try or settings for my crickets they don't seem able to keep themselves as a stable colony. Perhaps I can get my wife to agree on keeping a colony outside in the shed, but feeding my mantids would still be a issue.
Deacon
Well-known member
Haven't been here in several months and I thought I should add the final chapter of Freda, the Budwing. This very sweet little survivor, with her horribly prolapsed anus, went on to lay a total of nine infertile ooths before weakening and passing at 203 days old. She was my longest living mantid and the only one who was quick to show her threat display every day when I offered her insects.
From my batch of 14 mantids last fall (six species) I am down to one male Sphodromantis (Tanzania) who now has the run of a 10 gallon tank since I removed the interior walls. "Tanzy" is only 147 days old and quite active so he should be around for a while yet.
But because I am left with an abundance of Dubia roaches, with a lot of help from a grandson, I now have a fast growing Bearded Dragon who takes up any spare time. So, except for the feeder insects, I am probably out of the bug hobby. The last fifteen months were much fun and it was really nice to "meet" many interesting people on this forum. Thanks for all the help---you all made keeping mantids fun.
Nancy
From my batch of 14 mantids last fall (six species) I am down to one male Sphodromantis (Tanzania) who now has the run of a 10 gallon tank since I removed the interior walls. "Tanzy" is only 147 days old and quite active so he should be around for a while yet.
But because I am left with an abundance of Dubia roaches, with a lot of help from a grandson, I now have a fast growing Bearded Dragon who takes up any spare time. So, except for the feeder insects, I am probably out of the bug hobby. The last fifteen months were much fun and it was really nice to "meet" many interesting people on this forum. Thanks for all the help---you all made keeping mantids fun.
Nancy
