Idolomantis Consolidated

[sporeworld]

My first boy looks to be winding down. I didn't record what day he molted, but it's been more than a month, so I'm pretty happy with that. He did his "job", and can now rest in peace. Good night, sweet prince!

 

[twolfe]

I need advice... My first two males molted to adults, and they have the same condition. They don't hold their wings tight to their body. I'm not sure how to explain it. I can take a photo if you don't know what I'm talking about. The first one has a slight crease in one of his inner wings. When he was inflating, I don't think he was in the right position. The second one molted yesterday morning, and I kept an eye on him. He appeared to be doing everything right, but his wings still look like the others. Now I've had a male Ghost mate with a female with this condition, but I've never had a male molt with a female that didn't have the wings folded correctly. Any ideas what might be causing this and whether there is anything I can do to prevent this? My third (and last male) is inflating his wings now.

Also, I would love to know if people kept track of how many nymphs they started with, what instar they were when they got them, and how many of those made it to adults.

 

[Precarious]

I need advice... My first two males molted to adults, and they have the same condition. They don't hold their wings tight to their body. I'm not sure how to explain it. I can take a photo if you don't know what I'm talking about. The first one has a slight crease in one of his inner wings. When he was inflating, I don't think he was in the right position. The second one molted yesterday morning, and I kept an eye on him. He appeared to be doing everything right, but his wings still look like the others. Now I've had a male Ghost mate with a female with this condition, but I've never had a male molt with a female that didn't have the wings folded correctly. Any ideas what might be causing this and whether there is anything I can do to prevent this? My third (and last male) is inflating his wings now.

Also, I would love to know if people kept track of how many nymphs they started with, what instar they were when they got them, and how many of those made it to adults.

I would guess they are unable to hang at the proper angle. What I see them do is hang by the tips of the raptor claws and the first set of legs. That puts their body at about 45 degrees and the wings almost vertical. If the wings dry before they are fully inflated they will be puffed up and won't lay right. All you can really do is give them plenty of branches and other perches to hang from so they can find the right spot.

I got my last generation as six L1 nymphs and all but two made it to adult. One died molting to L2 and another fell while molting to L7, made it to L8 then died a few days later. I put a lot of work into making sure she molted to L8 so it was disappointing that she then died for no reason.

 

[sporeworld]

+1 to Precarious.

Best situation I've seen for them is as he described - hanging by raptors and front 2 legs (back ones dangle, usually). One of my females with a damaged front leg was doomed to an odd wing config, since she couldn't get the right angle with the bad tarsus. Otherwise, she's healthy, but the boys won't "play: with her.

I've had a few with sliiiightly offset wings... usually because some obstruction in the enclosure got in the way when inflating (my subadult enclosures are very sparse now).

I see a few cases of mismolt (stuck in the skin somehow). Almost always when the humidity slip below 40%.

Also, I finally got one suffering from "The Dripping Death" to molt. He didn't SURVIVE the molt, but I'm positive now, it's molt-related. But I've never seen this phenomena in any other species.

 

[angelofdeathzz]

I've found that about 2-3 in 10 will make it to adult and live out a healthy life all the way to old age and die from natural causes, but I was still learning, so now with the next flock I'm shooting for 5-6 out of 10, I've learned alot with this fairly large batch I started with, so at the risk of sounding arrogant please just follow the steps I've written in these pages along with some other peoples Great notes and it is possible to get them to adult, I'm just a PM away if ANYONE needs some help or advice as some of you already know.

Keep in mind unless you live in Africa these will always be a challenge, but the rewards are GREAT and totally worth it for me anyway. I think I may have had some good success with these in recent times and want to help others do the same!

 

[angelofdeathzz]

I had my first Hatch and it was HUGE, you can't really tell from the pic but there over 75 nymph's in there that have been moved from the 80oz deli to a 12x12 net cage, NO death's in over a week now, all are eating house flies still at L1 with some ff's mixed in there for any that are more timid, but from what I see they ALL love the house flies!

I do have them up for sale at a nice low price if anyone wants some, just check the for sale section.

well ventilated deli's are key

 

[Sparky]

Cool I haven't been here in years and the last time I was on, keeping Idolomantis diabolicas were only a dream now I see some on the classifieds for reasonable prices and a whole thread dedicated on their care. I've kept species of other critters in other hobbies known to be "difficult" that weren't actually that hard once I got them. Seeing from what I've read on here these guys have proven to be a struggle for even the most experienced breeders on here. I been thinking about trying out these guys since they are a little more affordable now and I would little to attempt at finding a way around their fussy requirements. Like having them in 3 seperate enclosures,

1) Preferred recorded living conditions

2) One with slightly less heat (room temperature)

3) One with slightly low humidity

I would also like to separate a few nymphs that are in the preferred living conditions and feed them exclusively on ground insects like roaches while the others will be fed exclusively flying insects to see if I notice a difference. If they are able to molt to adulthood and breed then I don't see all the fuss about their care ,but until then we'll have to go by the book.

 

[Precarious]

I would also like to separate a few nymphs that are in the preferred living conditions and feed them exclusively on ground insects like roaches while the others will be fed exclusively flying insects to see if I notice a difference.

I predict the difference you will notice is those fed exclusively on ground insects will soon die of starvation... unless you plan on hand-feeding them just about every meal. I can appreciate wanting to find the ideal conditions but I would scratch that variable off the list. They prefer flying insects over any other feeders without exception. I think everyone here would agree with that assessment.

I think what we're finding is they do relatively well in just about any conditions short of too dry, which is normal for any species. I raise mine without extra heat while others add heat, which only seems to increase their maturation rate. Their enclosure is the biggest factor as to whether or not you end up with adults. Pay the most attention to that and you will likely do fine. It would seem all the failures early on were due to falls from using the wrong surfaces to molt. Given the right surfaces the failure rate drops dramatically.

That being said, they are still not easy to breed. Getting adults is one thing. Producing viable ooths is another.

Hats off to Angelofdeathzz!

You should definitely get some. Really worth the effort. You will love them!

I mean... c'mon...

 

[lunarstorm]

Nice post Precarious, lets summarize.

<Oldtime Forum User> Holy cow, I haven't been to this place in years! When I was a young lad here, raising Idolomantis Diabolica was just a twinkle in our eyes. I wonder if I pull it off...

<Precarious> Yes, yes you should. Come into my lair, let me show you my drugs.

Precarious reaches into his trenchcoat and produces awesome pictures that inspire diabolical greed* to mantid fans.

...To Be Continued?

*har har!

 

[Precarious]

<Precarious> Yes, yes you should. Come into my lair, let me show you my drugs.

Precarious reaches into his trenchcoat and produces awesome pictures that inspire diabolical greed* to mantid fans.

Ha-ha... That's right. I'm a pusher and the newest designer kick is called Idolo.

You know you want it... :devil:

 

[Sparky]

I predict the difference you will notice is those fed exclusively on ground insects will soon die of starvation... unless you plan on hand-feeding them just about every meal.

I just wanted to say that most of these have been successfully kept in screen cages and or anything else that can help Idolo's to the top of the cage. I've kept unicorn mantids before and I'm pretty sure you would agree with me on saying that they usually stick to their little spot at the top of the enclosure and enjoy just hanging around in one spot, even for days at a time. If you heard of B. lateralis they are a species of roach that are increasingly becoming more popular as feeders and are preferred over crickets by many hobbyists. In my experience if you take these guys out of hiding and drop them into the open they will scamper around like mad and I've used these to feed my unicorn mantids. I'll just drop a few into its enclosure and if its a screen/mesh/ butterfly netting type deal they would usually run all over the walls and to the top where they were eaten but you will have a few smart ones that stay at the bottom, I just hand feed the left overs.

I'm not saying that this idea is bomb proof , I just want to try it out as a trial and error kinda thing and share my experience.

Oh and don't worry, if I wanted flies all I would have to do is open the patio door and thanks for the tip. The thing I'm worried about most is the surface they will molt on and molting issues. I'm not really worried about humidity or heat, I've kept things that stress the importance of heat and humidity which I pretty much don't make a big deal out of and never usually use anything special and everything I've had always thrived more than they should.

 

[angelofdeathzz]

I just need to say I never fed mine anything but flying food and never will, there's a myth and or truth(not sure really)that crix and other ground type feeders have to much protein and other things that can effect ooth's in a negative way in this type of species, so feed them at your own risk, I have over 150 nymphs from 3 ooths so far and I'll just go with what I know works! (;

 

[Precarious]

The thing I'm worried about most is the surface they will molt on and molting issues. I'm not really worried about humidity or heat, I've kept things that stress the importance of heat and humidity which I pretty much don't make a big deal out of and never usually use anything special and everything I've had always thrived more than they should.

No sweat, I wasn't trying to pick on you or anything. I just want you to have happy, healthy nymphs if you do decide to try Idolo. But be aware they are not Unicorns by a long shot. I've never had a Unicorn mismolt even with minimal attention. You won't get that result with Idolo. In their case humidity will make a difference. Ask anyone here who keeps them. And you are right to focus on the surfaces in your enclosure, especially for later molts.

 

[Sparky]

Ok cool, I'm going to keep them by the book but I also I really want to have a separate tank with a couple of Idolos in it so I can crack down a couple of myths and see if I can't make it a little easier to keep these guys. Roaches have been used to feed many things without usually causing any noticeable damage and in a way B. lateralis are kind of like semi flyers, well more like gliders... I'll let you guys know how it goes once I get a couple of things situated and get back into the hobby.

I'll start a diary thread or something on their conditions. I really can't wait to get back into the hobby and breed some idolos.

My plan is to raise a couple of these guys as L1's then raise them to adulthood by the book at first. I won't actually start the myth busting phase until I have at least successfully bred them.

 

[meaganelise9]

I know I've tried feeding mine a number of things, and she won't even touch most crawling food (except one spider I found in my bathroom).

 

[angelofdeathzz]

I'm very pleased in the fact that I did what I set out to do long ago, which is get these bred and in culture in the USA at a good price point so more people can try there hand at a once very rare, misunderstood mantis, that is also very stunning and beautiful. I would also like to thank everyone for all the input and Idea's that have sprang up a long the way, I didn't just succeed, we all did it as a team which is very cool in my book!

Has anyone heard from Sporeworld lately, he seem's to have dropped off the face of the earth?

 

[Precarious]

Has anyone heard from Sporeworld lately, he seem's to have dropped off the face of the earth?

Sh!t, you didn't see the news?

Sorry to break this to you, buddy...

 

[angelofdeathzz]

Holy cow Batman! That is bad news!!! :lol: and why does that cloud in the back ground look like a old man with alot of hair and beard go'n on? subliminal messages?

 

[sporeworld]

Nice headline. "Shenanigans", indeed! (Man, I WISH gravity would reverse like that - what a way to go!)

Forum dropped right before I went on a two-week work adventure (exhausting). Sporeworld (the person and the place) are doing fine. My bugsitter did a great job while I was gone.

I've got 8 ooths and 18 adults, with (lots) more on the way. Adult males are averaging a little over a month, as predicted. Haven't lost a female yet.

All adults are living in modified (of course) Large net cages. No losses to cannibalism.

Cages that had perpetual, or near-perpetual light had identical results as those with lights on timers. Due to nearby computer monitors going 24/7, complete darkenss has never really been possible for any of my critters.

As Precarious and Angelofdeathzz pointed out above, molting surfaces and humidity (above 40% rh) seem to be the big must-have's. Crickets seem fine, if you're willing to hand-feed (I've got a few trained to pick them off on occassion). Temps above 70f seem necessary to keep them feeding. And a portion of them just seem to have dead-end genes, mature slowly, fall behind the others, and eventually die. No idea why. I battled quite a bit with mildew and mold in some of my cages, but more frequent housekeeping, alternate substrates (I really like coconut fibers) and Nick's vinegar spray idea, seemed to win out in the end.

All in all, a great adventure. We should have them solidly on the market now, at affordable prices. Hopefully we'll get them in many different hands, and keep the breed in culture here in the states.

I think the openning page of this thread can stand as-is. If anyone thinks we need to add or ammend, let me know.

Now I'm off to dig through mountains and mountains of paperwork. Sigh.

Take care!

 

[angelofdeathzz]

That's great news Mark, I hope you have many, many babies from them all! Glad your alright, you must have been pack'n a parachute, or did that Zeus like cloud thing save you? Ha ha...