Intelligence Debate > Creation/Evolution poll xD

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  • God > Kickstarted Evolution...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Impersonal Designer > Evolution...

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • All Powerful God > Creation...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Big Bang > Evolution...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Life was an accident which adapted and evolved going against billions to one chances...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other (please state)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
if i understand you correctly, you're basically questioning whether i was truly a christian. if so, i still fail to see the relevance of this regarding the existance of god and/or creationism.
'I may have all knowledge and understand all secrets but if I have no love I am nothing.'
you can't invoke the bible to someone who doesn't believe in the bible in the first place without resorting to circular reasoning.

You said that you were a Christian and I was wondering if you were or if you just happened to grow up in a Christian family. I don't believe the creation of the universe hinges on your acceptance of God, I'm asking out of concern.
my family is either "agnostic" or buddhist.

What is your ultimate logical falling back point? At some point you have to believe in an infinite universe or something. Believing in the big bang isn't an ultimate falling back point since there had to be some (zero and negative numbers do exist) reason for it.
this is diving into advanced physics and astronomy, and i won't pretend i know much of the numerous theories physicists and astronomers have proposed regarding the "origin" (if there is an origin) of the universe and the big bang. bottomline is that unless you are familiar with physics and astronomy, you'll likely be stacking the deck, as would i. but out of curiosity, i did consult with my non-religious physics/astronomy expert friends for some referential material (so stay tuned). i just remember reading that material and recalling how the big bang and the "infinite" universe in no way WHATSOEVER definitively suggests anything divine.

Besides, the big bang follows the first few verses of genesis whereas an always present universe would not.
that is still far from adequate evidence that the bible is true. in fact, EVERY religious book can boast parallelisms with the real world, including fulfilled prophecies. this is nothing unusual considering that out of the thousands or millions of statements made in ANY religious book, it is statistically likely that at least some will be "true."

 
I could go on to say that all fruits appear to be the right size to be consumed, but that doesn't appear to be the real issue here. I'm just amazed of people who can make the assumption there is no God. To make such a statement says you possess absolute knowledge of the entire universe, hardly something a true seeker of scientific knowledge can realistically and rationally say. But that is another issue, that again clouds the real concern and that is, what if you are wrong? Mathematician Blaise Pascal made his famous wager that if, as a christian, he were wrong about about God then he lost nothing but if he right he had gained everything. The issue for you is to consider that if you were to die this day and had to face the God you currently deny, where would you eternal destiny be? You're placing your hopes on a belief system (evolution) that requires more faith to believe in than christianity. I would really encourage you to listen to your conscios on this one and what God may be trying to tell you.

 
I could go on to say that all fruits appear to be the right size to be consumed, but that doesn't appear to be the real issue here.
right size? that's a tautology. yes, of course, if something is consumable, then it is the "right" size, whatever "right size" means. what about fruits that aren't consumable and/or not the "right size?" now that means there is no intelligent design. once again, this is stacking the deck and begging the question.

I'm just amazed of people who can make the assumption there is no God. To make such a statement says you possess absolute knowledge of the entire universe, hardly something a true seeker of scientific knowledge can realistically and rationally say.
atheists do NOT make any assumptions. the concept of god is TAUGHT. to not accept an idea is NOT an assumption.

But that is another issue, that again clouds the real concern and that is, what if you are wrong? Mathematician Blaise Pascal made his famous wager that if, as a christian, he were wrong about about God then he lost nothing but if he right he had gained everything. The issue for you is to consider that if you were to die this day and had to face the God you currently deny, where would you eternal destiny be? You're placing your hopes on a belief system (evolution) that requires more faith to believe in than christianity. I would really encourage you to listen to your conscios on this one and what God may be trying to tell you.
i've already addressed pascal's wager in this thread. look for it.

it's famous because it's so fundamentally illogical yet christians still try to use it. i'm not going to go into detail AGAIN of all the reasons why pascal's wager is plain goofy, but you can start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager

i personally think this is the best and simplest disproof:

Ignores benefits/losses while alivePascal here takes what may be called an "eternal perspective." That is, his wager is not concerned with the lifetime of the person before death. At the very least, it assumes that belief and non-belief are of equal value before death. This ignores the time, money, and effort spent upon worship required to establish belief that could be redirected to other, more beneficial pursuits. Thus, a life spent on belief when there is no god results in a loss while a life spent on non-belief when there is no god results in a gain. I.e. If there is no god, life ends at death. This means that the only gain possible is during life, and before death. If one lives as if there is a god when there is in actuality not a god, then one's life before death (the only life one has) is wasted.
if there is no god, you've just waste all your time, money, and effort on worshiping a lie when you could have spent all that time, money, and effort on more beneficial and fun things in life. that's a HUGE gamble likewise. therefore, trying to get people to believe out of a false fear is totally irrational.

even pascal later admitted his wager was flawed, but of course, no pastor or priest wants to tell you that (STACKING THE DECK). even then, pascal's opinion is irrelevant without appealing to authority (yes, appeal to authority is another popular logical fallacy christians love to employ...it's another propaganda tactic).

 
If there are any others out there who share the questions or doubts of the debate on intelligent design. You may want to check out the works of the following:

Jonathan Wells, Ph.D, Ph.D

Stephen Meyer, Ph.D

Guillermo Gonzalez, Ph.D

William Lane Craig, Ph.D

Robin Collins, Ph.D

Jay Wesley Richards, Ph.D

Michael Denton, Ph.D

In conclusion, if I had to bet my eternal destiny, I would rather take Pascal's Wager any day.

 
If there are any others out there who share the questions or doubts of the debate on intelligent design. You may want to check out the works of the following:Jonathan Wells, Ph.D, Ph.D

Stephen Meyer, Ph.D

Guillermo Gonzalez, Ph.D

William Lane Craig, Ph.D

Robin Collins, Ph.D

Jay Wesley Richards, Ph.D

Michael Denton, Ph.D

In conclusion, if I had to bet my eternal destiny, I would rather take Pascal's Wager any day.
all of their work have been debunked. i also hope this isn't an attempt at appealing to authority.i (and the rest of the philosophical community) just debunked pascal's wager, and yet, you still accept it. that makes no logical sense whatsoever. pascal's wager is KNOWN for being false. you have been taught to not know this (thus, your teachers are intellectually dishonest and/or lazy).

 
I wasn't aware that philosophical wagers, like Pascal's, could be debunked. However, you have demonstrated the religious fervor and desperation that the religion of the evolutionist must adhere to. You claim the authors listed have been debunked, plesase site YOUR sources for your informed conclusion, oh but wait, that would mean citing authority, sorry. In fact, several of them were former evolutionists. I know that for the evolutionist, in this age of knowledge, that many evidences are now threatening your faith. But aside from this internet bantering, the question remains where will people spend their eternal destiny. As I have said earlier, you are going to have to face a holy and righteous God on judgement day, whether you believe in Him or not. If He judges you by His standard will you be innocent or guilty? The Bible says "the wages of sin is death", if you die in your sins you will spend an eternity in heck. But do you know what this God you deny did? He sent His son Jesus, to die to pay your fine for your sins and mine. If you believe in Him, confess your sins, and trust in Him to give you a new heart you will be saved. The last authority I'm going to claim to you on this matter for now is again the Bible, who refers to atheism in saying "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God." Considering what you are placing your faith in to explain all things, please consider your cost.

 
Before it's too late AFK. :wink: I'll feel like a failure if I don't see you in Heaven. You probably didn't get a very good religious background if you turned away from Christianity. An eternity in heck doesn't sound too pleasant if you know what I mean.

 
Why exactly do you think Saint's miracles do not exist? You can see them all the time. :? Curing of incurable diseases...
Which incurable diseases have been cured lately?

 
Why exactly do you think Saint's miracles do not exist? You can see them all the time. :? Curing of incurable diseases...
Which incurable diseases have been cured lately?
I don't keep up with current stuff anymore, but there was one instance in the case of cancer recently. And of course, AFK, what do you think of exorcism?

 
Why exactly do you think Saint's miracles do not exist? You can see them all the time. :? Curing of incurable diseases...
Which incurable diseases have been cured lately?
I don't keep up with current stuff anymore, but there was one instance in the case of cancer recently. And of course, AFK, what do you think of exorcism?
Cancer is not an incurable disease.

 
Why exactly do you think Saint's miracles do not exist? You can see them all the time. :? Curing of incurable diseases...
Which incurable diseases have been cured lately?
I don't keep up with current stuff anymore, but there was one instance in the case of cancer recently. And of course, AFK, what do you think of exorcism?
Cancer is not an incurable disease.
It is if you wait too long to get treatment. I should've been more clear.

 
Before it's too late AFK. :wink: I'll feel like a failure if I don't see you in Heaven. You probably didn't get a very good religious background if you turned away from Christianity. An eternity in heck doesn't sound too pleasant if you know what I mean.
Wow.

 
Before it's too late AFK. :wink: I'll feel like a failure if I don't see you in Heaven. You probably didn't get a very good religious background if you turned away from Christianity. An eternity in heck doesn't sound too pleasant if you know what I mean.
Wow.
What is that supposed to mean :? ?

 
Before it's too late AFK. :wink: I'll feel like a failure if I don't see you in Heaven. You probably didn't get a very good religious background if you turned away from Christianity. An eternity in heck doesn't sound too pleasant if you know what I mean.
Wow.
What is that supposed to mean :? ?
Don't want to turn this into a religious debate. Let's just say I don't believe the same way you do.

 
C'mon, it's a religious topic :D . If you're good, go to purgatory, then Heaven. If you're bad, go to heck. It sounds very, very harsh on the outside, but isn't life? When you go deeper into the faith, it starts to make sense.

 
C'mon, it's a religious topic :D . If you're good, go to purgatory, then Heaven. If you're bad, go to heck. It sounds very, very harsh on the outside, but isn't life? When you go deeper into the faith, it starts to make sense.
It doesn't make sense to everyone, including me. Science makes more sense. I believe the bible is a work of fiction that was written a long time ago so that people could make sense of things they didn't understand. Furthermore I don't believe in any God. I think that when you're dead, you're dead and that's it.

 
Any theories about your being when it dies? Their are saints that you can see their preserved bodies through the years...
When I die? Will be no different than anything else when it dies. My body can be preserved just like them but I don't believe there is a soul or anything like that that will live on and go to a heaven or a heck.

 

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