Mantids confiscated?

[Ricardo]

I've been reading a good few posts and discussions about the feds getting search warrants and confiscating mantids.

I'm just wondering, how would they know?? Are most of the people on the forum breeders that advertise exotic species?

How could they even find out about your pets ? Sorry if I sound like a noob, but I find it hard to believe some full grown law enforcers tracking down mantis breeders instead of actually tracking dangerous individuals. This just seems like an extreme misallocation of time and trouble for the law enforcement.

I guess the real question I'm asking , is how would they even know you have mantids?

 

[dgerndt]

I'm guessing they would only know if you were really loud and open about having lots of exotic pets. I don't think the authorities would get involved for just a few mantids. You probably have to have a lot of other bigger animals like venomous snakes, large carnivorous lizards, and alligators. I would still be careful about who you talk to about having exotic mantids, though.

 

[PhilinYuma]

I'm guessing they would only know if you were really loud and open about having lots of exotic pets. I don't think the authorities would get involved for just a few mantids. You probably have to have a lot of other bigger animals like venomous snakes, large carnivorous lizards, and alligators. I would still be careful about who you talk to about having exotic mantids, though.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Other ways to bring the attention of the authorities to your hobby and that of your friends include requesting a federal permit to keep mantids. You won't get one as a private individual, but you will be asked to name not only all your mantids, but the names and addies of all who provided you with them. Another way is less sure, but you never know your luck. Try announcing on a public, U.S. forum that you keep and trade insects illegally and insulting law enforcement officers whose job is to check on such offences, and who knows, you just might get lucky!

 

[Rick]

Please post where you read about confiscations and warrants. I have not heard of it. And they will know because people keep posting silly threads like this one.

 

[Ricardo]

Please post where you read about confiscations and warrants. I have not heard of it. And they will know because people keep posting silly threads like this one.

this thread in no way states or implies me having illegal mantids.

The two I do have are egyptian , and my query's were in regards to HOW someone would even know you have them.

Rick if you would like an example, then I will tell you that I just recently read about someones mail containing mantids. apparently the USPS opened it and took the mantids. They died in an office.

I personally won't purchase mantids that are illegal in BC , ( To much trouble and work )I'm just wondering how the system works is all.

 

[PhilinYuma]

this thread in no way states or implies me having illegal mantids.

The two I do have are egyptian , and my query's were in regards to HOW someone would even know you have them.

Rick if you would like an example, then I will tell you that I just recently read about someones mail containing mantids. apparently the USPS opened it and took the mantids. They died in an office.

I personally won't purchase mantids that are illegal in BC , ( To much trouble and work )I'm just wondering how the system works is all.

And of course, I made no such implication either! I was merely saying how the authorities might know. One of my sons is a U.S. federal agent who rarely goes after "hardened criminals", just those who are breaking the law, but he is in Customs Enforcement. Usually, as happened with your informant, they just let the mantids die, or gas them and return the package to the sender, but they can prosecute if they want to. Incidentally, another way to draw Canadian wildlife officials' attention to your hobby would be to write and ask them if it is O.K. to keep Egyptian mantids, which you have decided are legal. Great if you are right, tough luck if you are wrong!

 

[GreenOasis]

Yes, it seems sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy as far as the mantids go. According to the letter of the law, so far as I've read, mantids are not inherently illegal, but, as was pointed out to me, it is really up to the agents & judges whose job it is to interpret the law as to whether or not they are illegal. But, for the most part, as long as you are not open & obnoxious about it or aren't making a ton of money (for the law to cash in on), small-time hobbyists are no threat to feds.

And, as was also pointed out, those who get busted for mantids were likely primarily busted for some larger, rarer, more exotic species of animals (think CITES) that were being kept, traded, sold, or displayed...the mantids are just a "bonus" that they can tack on for a bonus. Gotta' love that. Get pulled over for speeding and they'll tack on broken headlights or anything else they can. (Why? Because that way, even if you get off on one charge, they can likely "stick it to you" for another!)

I don't hate the law, quite the opposite...but I do feel like government gets a bit TOO into our business sometimes.

 

[Ricardo]

And of course, I made no such implication either! I was merely saying how the authorities might know. One of my sons is a U.S. federal agent who rarely goes after "hardened criminals", just those who are breaking the law, but he is in Customs Enforcement. Usually, as happened with your informant, they just let the mantids die, or gas them and return the package to the sender, but they can prosecute if they want to. Incidentally, another way to draw Canadian wildlife officials' attention to your hobby would be to write and ask them if it is O.K. to keep Egyptian mantids, which you have decided are legal. Great if you are right, tough luck if you are wrong!

So you'll understand why I make my inquiries with mantis collectors like yourselves

I don't see any point in making the government aware of my mantids by asking them questions.

how do they know to check the packages though? IS there random searches if the packages are certain sizes?

 

[PhilinYuma]

So you'll understand why I make my inquiries with mantis collectors like yourselves

I don't see any point in making the government aware of my mantids by asking them questions.

how do they know to check the packages though? IS there random searches if the packages are certain sizes?

But why all this interest, if you don't plan on smuggling them into the country?

 

[Rick]

So you'll understand why I make my inquiries with mantis collectors like yourselves

I don't see any point in making the government aware of my mantids by asking them questions.

how do they know to check the packages though? IS there random searches if the packages are certain sizes?

You do realize everything you say here is public right? You already stated you ahve mantids on a public forum. If someone really cared (which I doubt) they already know you have them....

 

[ismart]

So you'll understand why I make my inquiries with mantis collectors like yourselves

I don't see any point in making the government aware of my mantids by asking them questions.

how do they know to check the packages though? IS there random searches if the packages are certain sizes?

When the package starts to shake, and make funny noises. This could be a good indicator somethings not right? :lol:

 

[Ricardo]

You do realize everything you say here is public right? You already stated you ahve mantids on a public forum. If someone really cared (which I doubt) they already know you have them....

I have already stated multiple times that egyptians are perfectly legal , and if the major petstore chains haven't had them confiscated then I won't either. Obviously what I say here is public, as what the petstore displays is public.

And technically this is a protected forum, therefore not completely public. Even if it was public , how many BC canadian law enforcers visit the mantid forums? That's right.

So I don't quite think it would be innapropriate to state that I have a perfectly legal species at my house on a public forums ABOUT having mantids.

 

[GreenOasis]

Even large businesses (or should I say "ESPECIALLY large businesses"?) don't always know all the laws & regulations, and a wildlife official wouldn't necessarily know until it was brought to their attention or they just HAPPENED to walk into the store & notice them, so...just because you bought an Egyptian mantis in a pet store, does not necessarily make them legal or "legit". Pet stores are notorious for making mistakes like that.

 

[Ricardo]

Even large businesses (or should I say "ESPECIALLY large businesses"?) don't always know all the laws & regulations, and a wildlife official wouldn't necessarily know until it was brought to their attention or they just HAPPENED to walk into the store & notice them, so...just because you bought an Egyptian mantis in a pet store, does not necessarily make them legal or "legit". Pet stores are notorious for making mistakes like that.

regardless, it is even less likely that someone would notice and go after my two egyptian mantids given there's multiple branches with them . I have yet to meet a canadian on this site and when I do they might not even be from BC.

It's so unlikely ( almost impossible ) that some specialist will come to my house just because I , ( like everyone else on the forum ) have admitted to having mantids. I think f there's this agreeiment between multiple pet stores that it is acceptable to sell mio's , then it probably is perfectly legal. I would understand if it were just one petstore worker , but it isn't.

I'm going to trust that there's some reason they're selling egyptian mio's under some messed up collective agreement. If they were just choosing one random species to profit from , then they could profit better from orchids who for some reason sell for upwards of 90 dollars each. Harder to breed yes, but not to big a challenge for the petstores.

I would really like to find this out , because it's just been annoying me. Of all the cool species , why the mio's?

 

[Rick]

I have already stated multiple times that egyptians are perfectly legal , and if the major petstore chains haven't had them confiscated then I won't either. Obviously what I say here is public, as what the petstore displays is public.

And technically this is a protected forum, therefore not completely public. Even if it was public , how many BC canadian law enforcers visit the mantid forums? That's right.

So I don't quite think it would be innapropriate to state that I have a perfectly legal species at my house on a public forums ABOUT having mantids.

I was trying to be funny about the forum thing, but guess you don't realize it. I really doubt anyone cares that a person has a few mantids that are non native. The forum is public, all it takes is a quick registration to read what everyone says.

You stated they were legal, however you do not have any proof. You are just going off of what a shop owner is telling you. Of course they are going to tell you anything you want to hear to make a sale. If I was selling crack and told you it was the only legal drug would you believe me? Of course not.

 

[Jesskb]

Ricardo, I believe you simply have too much faith in your pet stores. In my experience, pet stores are about the worst place to get information from.

Mios breed like rats, of course the pet store would push them. They're so cheap that often people just give them away on forums because they can't sell them. They're also small so they don't cost as much to house and feed. Not to mention they grow so fast. If you were mass producing something like ghosts (which take longer) or gongy's, idolos, or orchids, which are much more expensive and harder to take care of, it would be a lot harder for them to make money.

 

[PhilinYuma]

I was trying to be funny about the forum thing, but guess you don't realize it. I really doubt anyone cares that a person has a few mantids that are non native. The forum is public, all it takes is a quick registration to read what everyone says.

You stated they were legal, however you do not have any proof. You are just going off of what a shop owner is telling you. Of course they are going to tell you anything you want to hear to make a sale. If I was selling crack and told you it was the only legal drug would you believe me? Of course not.

I would! I would! Do you deliver? We're talking crack cocaine, though, right? I don't want none of that crystal meth! :lol:

 

[Termite48]

Since I have been doing a bit of mailing of mantids and usually at one PO, where they have known me for about ten years, I am friendly with the various clerks. They, though this all they do, don't know what is legal or not sometimes, as far as mailing is concerned. My first mantid mailing was a couple of mantid mailing, a couple of months ago went well. The question was posed, what are you mailing. I said Praying Mantids. The boss lady had the other clerk look it up on a sheet of named prohibted items. It seems that poisoness insects and other live and poisoness arthropods were named. It even says on their notice that you cannot ship things like lighter fluid, batteries with Cadmium, and some other things. I was asked to print "live insects" on the box. This seems to be inviting a search. Now that I have read this thread, I do not think that I shall print anything but fragile on the box. Maybe that is not even a good idea. What do you all say about that?

 

[PhilinYuma]

Since I have been doing a bit of mailing of mantids and usually at one PO, where they have known me for about ten years, I am friendly with the various clerks. They, though this all they do, don't know what is legal or not sometimes, as far as mailing is concerned. My first mantid mailing was a couple of mantid mailing, a couple of months ago went well. The question was posed, what are you mailing. I said Praying Mantids. The boss lady had the other clerk look it up on a sheet of named prohibted items. It seems that poisoness insects and other live and poisoness arthropods were named. It even says on their notice that you cannot ship things like lighter fluid, batteries with Cadmium, and some other things. I was asked to print "live insects" on the box. This seems to be inviting a search. Now that I have read this thread, I do not think that I shall print anything but fragile on the box. Maybe that is not even a good idea. What do you all say about that?

Smart move, though I think that Peter puts "live insects" on his BugsinCyberspace boxes. Correct me if I'm wrong Peter. I doubt very much, though, that they are treated differently in any way from other parcels, so why advertize?