Mixing communal species / live plants + feeder insects = ?

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EvilLost

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Hello all,

Long time reptile keeper but recently developed an interest in mantids and tarantulas. I have been experimenting with building my own enclosures recently and had a place perfect in my living room for a tall but thin enclosure, which sounded like it would be ideal for mantids. Also, I have an open-air terrarium in my bedroom currently; after reading the care requirements it seems like general requiremnts are similar enough that they could be housed together, and if they are a communal species....

Obviously, I am new to mantids but I have been keeping snakes and other reptiles for a good 5 years now. I also like to do everything myself from scratch (as much as is reasonably possible anyway)...anyway, onto the questions:

1) Does anyone have experience or knowledge on aggression between species? From what I read the Ghost and Dead-Leaf are both communal; do they care if I mix the species as long as the individual species are all communal?

2) The location I am designing this enclosure for is roughly 24" long x 48" tall x 6" deep (i can push this to 8" if i HAVE to). It is not very deep, but it is quite tall and long so I am confident space is more than sufficient (I was hoping to house a pair of each or so, for roughly 4-6 total in that enclosure). 3x is the general rule it seems, and I figure if they are ~3" each, my specs are good. However, is the depth an issue? I am leaning towards mantids because it seemed that it would be ok as long as the height and width were substantial.

3) Attached is a photograph of my current open-air terrarium. The dimensions on this are 48" long x 30" tall x 8" deep. I hand mist it and it has a false bottom for drainage. If I was to properly close this off with screen (it is thoroughly sealed+secured inside so that he can't squeeze anywhere) would it be suitable? They can easily climb the back wall. It seems as if it would be, but I am primarily concerned about releasing their live food into this and having them damage my flora....is this why members here seem to dislike live plants?
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4) Is there a feeder that will NOT harm my live plants inside the enclosure? I ask mainly in concern for my already completed terrarium, but this answer can also affect my plant choices for my up-and-coming project as well. While I know that I can freeze a bug before feeding so it doesn't move, I am under the impression that not 100% of insects will be eaten right away so there is a live bug other than your mantis inside your enclosure on most occasions...is this a wrong assumption?

5) Does a mantis need a *basking* spot, or will a heat strip suffice? I actually don't think I need either as I live in a very strange apt where two major hot water lines run directly underneath, so it is ALWAYS 70F+ in here even with the windows open all day in the winter...

Thanks for the replies! I will start a thread once I finish designing my new enclosure and hope for your feedback as well. If combining multiple communals together isn't a viable option, I may somehow partition it...

 
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I'll tackle the communal question:

As long as you keep them WELL fed, go with Ghosts. Great look, nice size, good variance in colors.

Keep the ghosts in deli cips (or similar) for the first 3 molts, to keep fruit fly feedings simple.

Then move them into your (beautiful) enclosure and keep it stocked with house flies (do some reading on how to keep these alive for 30 days). House Flies til subadult and finish with Blue Bottle Flies. Simple.

Get a good camera and take LOTS of pictures!

As for mixing species, I've had a lot of success, but it's tricky. Stick with the ghosts for a few months and get your bearings.

Check out these threads to get a glimpse of the GLORY of adult Ghosts!

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=20109

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=20173

Good luck!

 
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Sporeworld said:
I'll tackle the communal question:

As long as you keep them WELL fed, go with Ghosts. Great look, nice size, good variance in colors.

Keep the ghosts in deli cips (or similar) for the first 3 molts, to keep fruit fly feedings simple.

Then move them into your (beautiful) enclosure and keep it stocked with house flies (do some reading on how to keep these alive for 30 days). House Flies til subadult and finish with Blue Bottle Flies. Simple.

Get a good camera and take LOTS of pictures!

As for mixing species, I've had a lot of success, but it's tricky. Stick with the ghosts for a few months and get your bearings.

Good luck!
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Thanks Sporeworld.

I think I will try adding some no-see-um mesh to my terrarium and getting a few ghosts to try as you said. As for mixing species, I would like to design an enclosure specifically for that for my living room, it is a fair bit down the line (given once I plant it I like to give it at least a month to grow in / run any weird cycles / stabilize). When you say tricky, are there any specific differences to note as compared to a homogeneous communal enclosure? I am trying to plan for every contingency

 
For the food you could use flies like FF when young then advance to house flies, greenbottles, then finally bluebottles. I highly doubt they will eat the plants.

Hope it helps :)

Timor

 
If you have significantly larger Gongy's for instance (very docile), you can add smaller Ghosts and there shouldn't be an issue. Idolo's were the same. But that makes for a pricey little zoo. Also, the Gongy's are big AND active, so maybe not the best choice for what you're going towards.

I added many different species to adult Gongy and Idolo cages with good results - boxers, creos, ghosts, orchids, male chinese (scrawny), and a few others I can't remember. But I don't think they really enhanced anything.

You could also just get a smaller number of Dead Leaf mantids. The benefit there is you can probably stick to crickets or roaches. But you'd have more smell and cage cleaning issues to deal with.

 
Also, I think you're right and you'll be fine with ambient heat. More than 70 would be better, and maybe the lighting will provide that.

 
I'm used to reading the chameleon forums when it comes to help threads and other questions...

while I agree that you should start with Ghosts, my anser is NO. not because you will need to add plenty of sticks or twigs. not because they might need a basking spot if your temps are bellow 74F a great deal off time.

NO, because it is an "OPEN AIR" terrarium and doesn't have even a screen closed frount...look at that grass overhanging the enclosure on the right of the first pic. this is a bad idea. how are you going to feed flys? you could cup feed crickets and dubia, but they need flys sometimes.

Harry

 
if you are going to add mesh, add house fly size, then just keep them in tubs for the fruit fly stage...it will not last long.

Harry

 
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Remember though that no species is 100% communal. There could still be an incident. Of course this risk is lowered in a larger enclosure like yours. I think I agree with what someone else said about adding some ghost mantids in there. Most mantids will hang from the lid if they can. You could easily feed them bluebottle flies which would not harm your plants.

 
And forget the medincas they can't take the moisture, Ghost will love it thought, and if you get diff colors it will be nice, but dont forget the acanthrops, I think they would do great in there.

 
That is a beutiful terrarium,i am glad you asked that question i was wondering mi self.

Let us know how it works for you. :lol:

 
My original intentions were to screen it off, but upon closer inspection it doesn't seem as viable as I had hoped because as someone stated many of the plants are overhanging the opening at this point (moreso than when that picture was originaly taken). As a result, I might build a screen door to install over the opening or I might just hold off until I build a whole new enclosure for them, but ghosts seem to be winning the species race :)

Thanks for your responses!

 
Well don't let that throw u off completely, you can still keep a mantis or two in there, because most find a home and dont move away from it, I have tried many species on plants and window screens and they stay there day in and day out, as long as they get water and food they do not wander much if at all. try it, u will like it. :lol:

 
hibiscusmile said:
Well don't let that throw u off completely, you can still keep a mantis or two in there, because most find a home and dont move away from it, I have tried many species on plants and window screens and they stay there day in and day out, as long as they get water and food they do not wander much if at all. try it, u will like it. :lol:
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ahhah sort of like free-ranging a chameleon? I might consider giving that a shot...worst case I'll just have a nice little mantis running around my room :p

 
EvilLost said:
ahhah sort of like free-ranging a chameleon? I might consider giving that a shot...worst case I'll just have a nice little mantis running around my room :p
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what about a flower mantis? my Creo free ranged with me all day today. she never left the flashlight I put her on to feed in frount of my friends. she also stayed for many hours yesterday on the plant shown in my pics I postred.

I can't speak for the males that should like to fly every now and then, but my female Creo just hangs out and chills.

oh, since she didn't eat yesterday after she molted, I whent into my cricket keeper and pulled out a full grown male cricket. my friends kept saying that she would never take it from my tweezers, but she did. took her an hour but finshed everything but a rear leg that must have fallen. :eek:

Harry

 

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