My mantids and stuff: And please ID

[MantidLord]

Hi everyone, here are some pics taken of Mantis religiosa found here in upstate New York. As stated in an older thread, these euros are really smaller than what I'm used to. I mean, I've never dealt with Stagmomantis sp, but they are the same size. Anyway, here ya go. The better pictures were taken by my friend.

Before I begin, here's an ambush bug, never saw these guys on the west coast, these things are pretty cool.

M. religiosa male

Female

Iphone pics

Funny pic

Stagmomantis sp found in New Jersey

Anyone know what these guys are? I figured carolina, but the wings are different I think. Here ya go:

Thanks!

 

[agent A]

very nice pics!!! I think they are carolina, according to bug guide.net, S.carolina can be found as north as new jersey, it doesn't say any other species lives in new jersey, cool find

i wonder if any carolina live in Connecticut

 

[minard734]

S. Carolina for sure.

 

[MantidLord]

Thanks! Yeah I'm pretty sure it's carolina. Like 88% sure if it weren't for the wings. And this thread http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=22603&hl=carolina&fromsearch=1 makes me 95% sure it's carolina. But I forgot what color the inside of limbata wings and other Stagmomantis sp wings are. Is that even a good indicator for species with this genus?

 

[MantidLord]

Lol you beat me to it. And it was your thread that convinced me.

 

[Idolofreak]

Love the 7th pic where he's like, "She's eating WHAT???" :lol: :lol: :lol: Nice macro pics.

 

[minard734]

Lol you beat me to it. And it was your thread that convinced me.

Haha nice! Good to see my threads being linked to and stuff. Yes, this is Stagmomantis carolina. The shape of the abdomen, wings, and thorax resemble no other. Also, it is the only KNOWN Stagmomantis spp to this guy's area. But that doesn't mean he should just not think of other possibilities ever. I always look for abnormalities and such things, hoping to one day find something new. Hahaha!

S. californica has noticeably shorter wingbuds with a more rounded abdomen (different distribution of weight when gravid even). Also, I notice it has a shorter thorax.

S. limbata has a more rigged and widened pro-thorax than your mantids have.

S. carolina looks just about right.

S. floridensis has EXTREMELY short wingbuds with an elongated weight distribution. Thorax is also proportionately thinner and longer.

 

[MantidLord]

Those are excellent pictures and information for identifying the species. Like you, I try to keep my eye out for anything "new" or different, hoping it's some new species. I've never dealt with any Stagmomantis species before, so I'm happy to have found some. Where have you actually found S. californica?

 

[minard734]

Well only one of those pictures is mine. The S. carolina that is. All the info I've gathered though, is from viewing many different specimens online and comparing them to specimens I've seen/caught. I have seen the Stagmomantis floridensis in person before though. I've seen pictures of many others. The pictures you see of the 3 other Stagmomantis spp are from other users on Bugguide.net (which I highly suggest to anyone). As far as their range goes? California, New Mexico, etc.

 

[Ntsees]

...But I forgot what color the inside of limbata wings and other Stagmomantis sp wings are. Is that even a good indicator for species with this genus?

The latest information on this forum has gotten me puzzled about the limbata underwings but based on my current knowledge, I think the underwings in the limbata (female) is yellow while the male limbata underwings is dark ( <-------still trying to confirm this).

The indicator I use for distinguishing limbata vs carolina is that the forewing on the carolina has a black spot (take a look of green carolina pictures and the black spot will stand out). Limbatas on the other hand never have that black spot. Instead, the spot is either brown, green, yellow, etc. depending on the color of the limabta.

 

[minard734]

I wouldn't suggest you use the underwing color to tell the difference. As far as Stagmomantis carolina goes, there are multiple colors it should be. I've seen yellow, orange, green, grey, and black. The grey or black isn't just in males. Some females posses it.

I do however agree with your opinion on the stigmatic patch (black spot). It is a good indicator. The Stagmomantis floridensis often has a white one instead.

 

[Mr.Mantid]

Is that raptor claws I see on that ambush bug?

 

[MantidLord]

Ahh okay, that makes much more sense. What about the non green carolina's, should one still look for a dark spot on the wings? Or will the spot change depending on the mantis's color like it does for S. limbata? And just to clarify, we should use the wingbuds/abdomen/thorax characteristic to identify S. californica, correct?

@Mr. Mantid: yep, it has raptorial claws. To my knowledge, all ambush bugs do. They hold their prey while piercing it with they're mouth and sucking the juices out. Pretty cool because they'll take on like wasps and bees like it's nothing.

 

[Ntsees]

Ahh okay, that makes much more sense. What about the non green carolina's, should one still look for a dark spot on the wings? Or will the spot change depending on the mantis's color like it does for S. limbata? And just to clarify, we should use the wingbuds/abdomen/thorax characteristic to identify S. californica, correct?

I've looked at carolina photos and the spot is still black regardless of color. I do notice that the black spot may vary in size (small to larger) but a black spot/spec is still a black spot.

And you are right on the californica. I don't know about the wingbuds and thorax, but I use the abdomen (~2-3 black markings on the anterior part of the thorax) for californica identification. Also, another key is that californica has dark (blackish) underwings, something that is not found in either carolina or limbata. Just take a look at the latest pic from Yen_saws post on "Several oothecae of native (US) species available". He has a picture of a californica female in defense mode.

 

[minard734]

It's funny that you say that because I have quite a few S. carolina females with dark underwings. It's not common but it happens.

 

[Ntsees]

It's funny that you say that because I have quite a few S. carolina females with dark underwings. It's not common but it happens.

I don't have much experience with the carolinas and limbatas and so I can go on what I learn here. I'm beginning to think that the underwings of carolinas and limbatas may be different depending on what color they become. The underwing coloration of these two species is what I'm puzzled about with the new incoming information/pictures. However, the stigmatic patch differentiation of those 2 species will remain hard-core imprinted into my mind (unless proven otherwise).

Quite interesting because for the 2 species that I'm most familiar with, Iris oratoria and Mantis religiosa, the underwing coloration will remain relatively the same regardless of what color they become.

 

[minard734]

I agree.

 

[Ntsees]

I don't have much experience with the carolinas and limbatas and so I can go on what I learn here. I'm beginning to think that the underwings of carolinas and limbatas may be different depending on what color they become. The underwing coloration of these two species is what I'm puzzled about with the new incoming information/pictures. However, when dealing with species identification though, it shouldn't pose a problem since the stigmatic patch differentiation of those 2 species will remain hard-core imprinted into my mind (until proven otherwise).

Quite interesting because for the 2 species that I'm most familiar with, Iris oratoria and Mantis religiosa, the underwing coloration will remain relatively the same regardless of what color they become.

edited: oops, sorry for the error/doublepost

 

[MantidLord]

I agree Ntsees which is why I was so confused. On the comparison picture it has one specimen with dark underwings and orange while the other is yellow and black. I'm used to Iris oratoria having that purpple spot and everything regardless if the mantis is tan, brown, or green. And with M. religiosa, they're always clear. I wasn't aware underwing color varies within species of different color morphs.