Ooth/Nymph enclosure

[gp724]

Hello, 

I'm so glad I found this forum, as I'm very new to mantids! I have had reptiles, fish, and plenty of mammals, so I am experienced with other animals. I ordered a mantis egg case from the costco website, it should arrive in about a week. I'm in Canada, and am having a very hard time trying to find a suitable enclosure. Would it be alright if I took the lid off of a critter keeper, and used an elastic band to secure cloth over the lid. I don't want the mantids to eat eachother, so how long should I wait before seperating them? Would 24 hours work? Also, for nymph cages when they are seperated, can I keep them in those disposable clear plastic cups, and use an elastic band to secure cloth over the tops? I do plan on keeping a few, is a ten gallon tank big enough for one? I have it left over from my betta, he was moved to a 20 gallon long. I also saw a 2.5 gallon tank at petsmart, would that work? I'm thinking it would be too small though. 

I can't find fruit flies or pinhead crickets anywhere! I emailed a reptile place, and a vet clinic, to see if they know where I can buy any, but if I can't find them, could I potentially use those black garden ants? Or is there another bug that would be better? 

Thanks in advance,

gp724

 

[Ranitomeya]

Most species should be separated within 24 hours of hatching to avoid deaths due to stress and cannibalism. You can keep them in disposable plastic portion cups that are big enough for them to safely molt in--twice their length in width and three times their length in height is a good minimum. Cloth secured over the tops is good--I use portion cups, poke a lot of holes on the lids and sides of the cup, and then use a ring of hot glue to affix a piece of paper towel about the size of the lid to the lid to give the mantis something to hold onto and molt from. This setup is mainly used for nymphs and I set animals nearing their molt into adults into larger containers with more rough surface area like a net cage to ensure they can molt successfully and find places to grip, expand their wings, and harden successfully.

 

[avn]

I just went through this exact thing. You can read my thread to follow along with what I did and learned..



Quick answers to your questions:

- you can leave them together for the first few weeks. They'll eat eachother somewhat, but they wont ALL eat eachother. 

- don't feed ants. Mantises are scared of them.  Order some *already producing* flightless fruitfly cultures online and start some new colonies. An ootheca worth of mantises eats a LOT.

- 10 gallons is a good size for an ooth-worth. its small for a single mantis until it grows.

- don't get all excited and decorate your terrarium like I did.  keep it really distopian with just some sticks and paper towel on the bottom. This will let the mantises find the fruit flies way easier.

- instead of worrying about a creature keeper, i'd just go ahead and put the ooth in the 10 gallon and keep all the mantises in there together until they've molted at least once.  I've learned from others at the forum her  and reading other peoples experiences that separating them into separate nymph cups means they'll take FOREVER to feed, and they'll still have pretty high mortality. 

 

[gp724]

I read about nymph cups on this forum, but I like the idea of keeping them together until their first molt, should help weed out the weaker ones. I can't seem to find a fruit fly culture anywhere that will ship to where I live. I am going to my local fish/reptile store, so I will see if they have any there. I know that they carry herps, so I'll ask where they buy their pinheads/fruit flies. I might be able to catch some around my house, but they can fly, and I think they are the bigger fruit flies. I have homes lined up for some mantids, I think I'll just release the rest. I want to keep at least one though. I will use the ten gallon for a ooth hatching container. Could I keep a single mantis in a 2.5 gallon aquarium?

 

[avn]

if you insist on cups, try these 

 

[avn]

ok reading your response - 

you can use regular fruit flies that you catch, flying or not.

If they seem bigger (say, a couple mm long, not a blue bottle which is a cm long) they're probably hydei, which shouldn't be a problem for chinese mantis nymphs. 

I'd catch as many of those fruit flies as you can and start a culture.  Do it asap, hydei take like 3 weeks to culture. 

I'd still try to see if something like Josh Frogs or BugsInCyberspace will ship to you. 

You can put flies in the freezer for a minute or two to knock them out, then throw them in the nymph house and they'll come back to life in a few minutes. The mantises should have fun catching them. 

Yeah definitely keep them until the first molt. I had really high mortality (40-50% survivors) so don't release them until that's over.  Those mortality figures seem pretty standard.

Also if you want to keep several mantids and have a 10 gallon, consider something like this:

 

[gp724]

Cool! Thanks for the info! I was told today by an entomologist that mantis nymphs can handle 1/2" crickets. I doubt this is true, as you guys say to use fruit flies. Would 2 week old crickets work? I have access to those. I don't have any fruit flies around my house, but I do know people who have fruit flies. I will probably use cups after their 2nd molt, I have found homes for like 20 mantids, so I'm really hoping it will hatch. It shipped today, so I'm guessing it will arrive tommorow. 

 

[avn]

When your nymphs hatch, they'll be about the size of a staple. So use that in figuring out what size food they can take.  Sounds like a half inch cricket will be as big as them. 

You might have a few weeks to prepare before you get a hatch. They take a while to hatch after they are brought out of the refrigerator 

 

[gp724]

Okay, I do have 2 week old crickets, but I think I will just breed my own crickets, in order to get pinheads.  The ootheca should arrive tomorrow, I am very excited! 

 

[avn]

Keep us up to date with your progress

 

[gp724]

The ooth JUST arrived! I put it in the ten gallon aquarium, with sterilized play sand as a substrate. I got some crickets yesterday, they have already began to lay eggs! Maybe they had bred in the container I got them in? 

 

[hibiscusmile]

Your babies will not be able to eat crickets when they hatch, u need fruit flies. Why do u say u cannot find fruitflies? I have them and the

internet is full of places that sell them.

 

[CosbyArt]

For fruit flies I've only had luck finding them at the larger pet stores in a nearby city such as PetCo and PetSmart. I've also ordered them offline several times as well with great success, with only one having a issue during shipment.

The entomologist you spoke to must be referencing a latter instar nymph such as L5. As at L1 they will need fruit flies, and Hydei will work fine for a few instars. I wouldn't bother to offer them crickets till at least L3 then offer pinhead crickets or slightly larger. I found it is better to feed nymphs smaller prey feeders more often than larger ones, that way skittish nymphs or larger crickets will not attack the nymph, and you know they are eating fine.

 

[gp724]

Darn! I can't find fruit flies anywhere! I have called every pet store in my city, and none of them carry fruit flies. I don't have any fruit flies at my house, and all of my friends/relatives who live close to me have already killed all of their fruit flies. I don't really want to pay $80 for shipping on a $20 order, so I am at a loss for what to do. I could possibly be driving to a larger city on sunday, so if I go, I will check there. If not, I might be in trouble!

 

[CosbyArt]

Don't know of anyone that charges $80 for shipping flies - at most it should be $15-$20 for 2 day priority (the only way I ship/buy).

Have a look at Peter's site BugsInCyberspace he sells a large Hydei culture for $8.50 plus shipping (which is $10 for priority mail to me). The only thing is his site requires $10 or more minimum order (before shipping) so just throw in some excelsior ($3) or something and that is $21.50 shipped.

 

[hibiscusmile]

I will send them free if u pay shipping. What kind do u want? I also sell them for 9.95 on my site.

 

[gp724]

Are you located in Canada? The only place that I can find that ships to Canada charges $80 shipping to where I live. I'm not sure why though, I don't live in a remote area.