Pre-sub to Sub-adult Idolomantises

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Brain everyone has their own opinions, and I am glad my God bothers you! He sent his only son to die on the cross for you, So it is good that you think of him, no matter what way it is, you at least acknowledge that there is one just by saying his name, and btw, it is written: Romans 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

and hope is born of God, so you hoping I ment something else is "hopeful" to me to :p :tt2:

 
As for the god thing... lol sorry it just bothers me people still believe in such a fairy tale!
Statements like that can give other non believers a bad name. :( It is just rude and disrespectful.
 
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Sorry for being such an arrogant jack-butt.

 
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I disagree on keeping cb vs wc, they will never be healthier then where God placed them to be, we cannot give them same quality of food no matter what we do. ;)
All in all they are much better off in captivity than the wild. The only thing that we can not mimic is their diet. Specifically what their favorite foods eat.

How have they evolved to use that sort of nutrition to help them?

CB vs. WC

In the wild, mantids will most likely eat insects of all sorts, who knows every species but we can get an idea by observing them in the wild and figuring out what is most abundant in that region. All we can do is rely on folks that are cool enough to take their time to observe them. These are mostly collectors, exporters, etc. In my opinion, observing them in the wild would but a serious thrill!!! :)

Their instinct. Looking out for predators, how stressed are they really in the wild if they are attacked every few days? Do they keep a journal? Memory, or just gut instinct thru evolution.

Providing them a secure home, even though they do not feel secure because they are always looking over their shoulders, they are safe. They do not have to experience the traumatic situations they deal with in the wild. Birds, rodents, fighting for survival, fight a prey item if they underestimate it's power, etc.

We don't disturb them when they shed. (In the wild, I am sure there are tons of mantids that become food just because they became crippled from mis molting due to a heavy wind, or rain, or being attacked by a predator.

It doesn't rain, blow winds nor anything else for that matter when they are mating in our homes that we provide for them.

Mantids seem to do best on flying insects such as house flies, blue bottle flies,bumble bees, honey bees, moths, even wasps.

Most of us do that. We provide them with the best of our knowledge. What helps them thrive to the best of their ability is our goal.

Although, there must be something in the wild, that their prey eats or gets that we do not know of yet. Something that benefits them. Hopefully we will get an idea.

Example: The Idolomantis just appears to have trouble molting as an older, larger, heavier mantid. Some strains have trouble molting as L6+ while others are eating machines and molt quicker than others. All of this, is in my experience. However, their ooths can hatch up to 100! This is probably why they do exist, having an average of 60 nymphs make it out of a fertile ooth, and 7-10 adults survive, few mate. Who really knows.

Possibly they take longer in the wild to get to adult hood? How much food do they really have available? Do these gems hide out from predators most of the day? Do they hang in the shade just because it gets so damn hot?

Maybe they do not get as much food as we provide them, so they take longer periods between molts.

Maybe a lot of my pre-sub adults mis molted because they were over fed prior to molting? Maybe a few of them feel from the top because they were feeling weak from being over fed? I have no idea. But I do want to test more and more pre-subs with their consumption of food.

Also, how many species of mantids are IMPOSSIBLE to raise in captivity?

I only know of 1. So far... The Moss mantis, not sure the scientific name. It is the mantid that literally is covered in exoskeleton material that mimics moss?

By the way, I edited this a few times. I don't have much time as I wish on here because this is my fourth hobby.

And now that I slept on it, I do apologize for being such a jerk. Rebecca's comment should have never bothered me as much as it did, who am I to dismiss other's beliefs. I am sorry Rebecca. :)

 
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I read your unedited post and I'm glad you slept on it and change the whole thing.
dry.gif
but hey in the end you opened your mind a little and did the right thing. ;)

guess your OK in my book after all. :D

 
Coming into the discussion late, but yeah - I had a lot of mis-molts with my adult idols. I had 3 beautiful specimens that fell with their wings about 3/4 expanded. Wasn't sure what happened, until i watch my last female molting. I wathced her go from a great grip on a perfect perch, to slipping her grip one foot at a time. It was excrutiating to watch! Her entire weight ended up hanging by the shell of ONE tiny leg. It all ended well, but it was an hour long nail-biter! My guess is, the others had similar predicaments, but also had to contend with flies buzzing around - maybe seeking their revenge! (ha).

That girl, in particular, was about 2 weeks behind her siblings. It seemed noteworthy, that she was one of the few I allowed to eat crickets, and she gorged on them. Bloated, she took close to a week without eating before she molted - like she had to shed the weight first. Seemed really odd.

 
That is a kick-butt chart of info.!!! :)

Maybe they need a much lower temp. at night to sleep????

95 degrees is a big difference from 105.

Average of 80 is huge from an average of 95 .

 
That is a kick-butt chart of info.!!! :)

Maybe they need a much lower temp. at night to sleep????

95 degrees is a big difference from 105.

Average of 80 is huge from an average of 95 .
Thanks, the whole Idolo thing just bothers me so I started doing research on their home. Some interesting things I thought were the avg low temps in the mid 60s, and the highs don't get crazy hot either. I'm trying to keep conditions as near to these as possible, around 80-85 during the day at 50% humidity, then dropping to 70 at night at 60% humidity.

 
Thanks, the whole Idolo thing just bothers me so I started doing research on their home. Some interesting things I thought were the avg low temps in the mid 60s, and the highs don't get crazy hot either. I'm trying to keep conditions as near to these as possible, around 80-85 during the day at 50% humidity, then dropping to 70 at night at 60% humidity.
The thing is, that's not too far off of standard room temperatures and humidity. I hope it works

 
The thing is, that's not too far off of standard room temperatures and humidity. I hope it works
Yeah kinda weird huh? Well the rainy season is Mar-Apr-May, so I'm thinking this is when the adults are around. Apparently there is a burst of green foliage in Tanzania during this time, so the mantids have most likely evolved to match this. All Idolos I've seen pictures of change from drab brown subs to bright green adults without any changes in habitat (i.e. I'm assuming its genetic). I keep my shields in monarch cages and put them over a pan of water at night, which increases humidity for the cage pretty well. I'll either do this or use a glass aquarium when my Idolos get older.

 
good morning every one,i hope i dont overstep my bounds being a newbie.in my way of thinking God gave these mantdids to nurture ,enjoy,and take care to the best of our ability.Recently i ordered a african lineola and im very thrilled about it.My only regrets when it comes to mantids i did;nt do it early in the year.And i really don't wantno one's eye's to fall out ha ha.last night i lost one of my favorite chinese females,the somberness i feel is strong.Today i'm going to the locale, where there is many carolinas and try to find some more females who've hadnt laid yet,because if i do something each day that,has to do with mantis's i alway feel better.may everyone have a blessed day and enjoy your mantids

 
Nice little chart I found with the weather from Musoma, Tanzania. This is where my Idolos came from (IGM 198). Don't know much about what time of year the generations come about, but its interesting nonetheless.

Musoma weather reports
Great info! Thanks!

The funny thing is I've been raising mine at these conditions nearly exactly and it's been working well. Just had my first molt to L6 with no problems.

PLEASE, everyone keeping Idolos, take note of the relative humidity on that chart. I know I'm always harping on humidity, but it is key to healthy molts. Of course they need to have feet too!

Lately when I see they stop taking food I've been putting mine into deli cups I set up specifically for molting. The screen lid is covered in thin twigs and there are leaves to one side in case they need to step off the old skin. The L6 had legs long enough to reach over he old skin to the molting surface! Man, their legs get long after that molt.

For L7 they will need to step off the old skin and flip right side up to inflate the wings. Make sure you have a lower perch available or they may try to climb up the old skin and fall. I've watched this with Violins molting to adult and they are about as close physiologically to Idolos as we can get. The Idolos main issue when molting is the widened claws. Once they clear that the final obstacle is rotation to allow for wing inflation. Make sure you give them what they need to do this safely.

Of course, I'm only a n00b, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. :D

IdoloL6freshmoltsm01.jpg


IdoloL6freshmoltsm02.jpg


 
I was thinking the same thing, most adults probably molt correcting during the rainy season. I've been told by a few more experienced breeders over seas that keeping them humid past L4 is the best thing you can do for them. Still use screen, still relocate them to a much wider holed mesh once they are getting to large L4s, but keep that paper towel on the floor wet.

 
It's been an Idolo molt fest over here the past few days:

My last molt to L4, two more molts to L5 and another perfect molt to L6.

Here is the new L6...

IdoloL6bmoltsm03.jpg


IdoloL6bmoltsm01.jpg


IdoloL6bmoltsm02.jpg


IdoloL6bmoltsm06.jpg


IdoloL6bmoltsm08.jpg


 
Nice pics. My triplets should be molting to L6 soon, they look like they're gonna pop with so many bluebottles in em. I've heard some members say they are not food aggressive, though I see the opposite. Perhaps its a different IGM #? Anywho they are amazing so far.

 
Nice pics. My triplets should be molting to L6 soon, they look like they're gonna pop with so many bluebottles in em. I've heard some members say they are not food aggressive, though I see the opposite. Perhaps its a different IGM #? Anywho they are amazing so far.
Mine are very aggressive eaters. They were taking bluebottles at L1!

 

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