S. limbata breeding 2009

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She appears to have suffered a prolapsed intestine. Prepping her for either burial or dissection, it looks like a 1/4" of intestine are full and exposed. I'm guessing dissection won't find anything else, so I'm probably just going to bury her.

Could have been due to a cricket bite since there were two in her cage, but I doubt they were the culprits since I saw the diarrhea this morning.

 
Thanks Katnapper. It's always disappointing to lose adults...but even more frustrating to lose a pet *and* subject of experiment. Oh, well.

 
Sorry, Kamakiri, but I have trouble believing in the color experiment. I've seen all different colors displayed from the same original ootheca, so I just have trouble believing that different colors in their environments could have an affect.

Also, humidity supposedly plays a factor in coloration of some other insects (Extatosoma tiaratum, for example, is more green when raised in humid conditions. Full on phasmid scientists swear by this! And then foods like Eucalyptus vs. blackberry have been said to have effects.).

It seems difficult to set the control. Since a large percentage of them are pinkish-tan and another large portion are green (and other colors as you have listed), it's impossible to know whether an individual mantis placed on a green background was going to be green anyway. I tend to suspect it has more to do with genetic factors, but I'm interested in your experiments and results. S. limbata is a wonderful mantis for the fact it does come in several different flavors! So little is really known about most bugs. Today you've taught me to look for puncture marks on wild-caught females' wings!

What did I miss about these crinkle-winged mantids? I must have missed the other thread where you discussed this. Arkanis and Kamakiri, how many males reached maturity and how many of them had crinkled wings? Very interesting!

 
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Peter,

The crinkle wing discussion is mostly here:

Crinkle wing thread in health forum

My feeling so far is that the environment color only has a small effect on overall color and patterning with S. limbata.

From my first batch, all my males ended up being green variants. 13 or so made it to adult. One was a slightly blue-green. None from this group were 'camo' patterned.

Of the five females that made it to L7/subadult, two were pink/tan and three were green. One of each were showing camo patterning, only the pink female became a camo imago.

The slight adjustment of color was only noticeable from a small sample of the group. Off the top of my head, the examples are the white one which was only that way for L5 or L6 and reverted back to pink/tan. A couple of the males turned into a shade of green very close to the green of their enclosure. The other male mentioned above turned bluer than the rest with blue and purple surroundings.

More bad news for me to pile on today...

Marge will probably die too.

Over the weekend and thru yesterday, we've been having a heat wave...the house is air conditioned, but we have it set to a relatively high temp when we are out at either 76 or 78 F.

 
Sorry, Kamakiri, but I have trouble believing in the color experiment. I've seen all different colors displayed from the same original ootheca, so I just have trouble believing that different colors in their environments could have an affect.It seems difficult to set the control. Since a large percentage of them are pinkish-tan and another large portion are green (and other colors as you have listed), it's impossible to know whether an individual mantis placed on a green background was going to be green anyway. I tend to suspect it has more to do with genetic factors, but I'm interested in your experiments and results. S. limbata is a wonderful mantis for the fact it does come in several different flavors! So little is really known about most bugs. Today you've taught me to look for puncture marks on wild-caught females' wings!
Yeah, quite aside from the dreaded "null hypothesis" that you alluded to, there are a lot of pitfalls standing between accurately gathered data and a working hypothesis. Here are two S. limbata related examples, one ridiculous, one interesting:

I collected wild S. limbata ooths from the wall adjoining my "secret limbata haven," and found that while most of them were a faded grey, some were of a cream color that exactly matched the stucco wall. Cryptic coloration! Only when I got them home and examined them closely did I realize that the "cream" ones were over a year old (all unzipped) and that they were cream because someone had touched up the wall with cream paint!

One field study on this mantis (sorry, can't remember where I saw it) noted that of two color morphs of S. limbata, occuring on grass stems, there were a greater number of brown miorph specimens at the top of the stalks, which had begun to turn brown, and greater number of green specimens on the power, greener parts of the stems. This seems to suggest that either the mantids could change their color to match their environment or that they "selected" an apropriate background on which to perch. The former, though, implies an almost chameleon like ability to change color, and the latter suggests that the two populations were ecologically distinct. This argument, thoughm, as you suggest, would be greatly weakened by finding a "significant" number of brown morphs among the greens and vice versa. Another, perhaps more likely possibility, though, is that neither color morph chose its environment, but that at the end of the day, more green specimens on the brown stems had been predated and the same with brown specimens on the green parts of the stems. Evolution in process!

Certainly, it wouldn't be hard to test this hypothesis, but my point here is that a single set of data is often insufficient on its own.

 
Finally have a couple of adults from the second batch of nymphs. Mandy molted last week and is a light tan with lemon-yellow wings. One of the two males molted and is a green/tan camo with silvery wings speckled with black. Both are relatively small compared to all of the first batch adults. I'll try breeding them in another week or so.

Cherisse seems to be egg bound and still has not laid. There are 4 normal and 3 crinkle males left from the first batch.

 
Cherisse seems to be egg bound and still has not laid.
Of course, I needed to type that in order to encourage her. She's not doing too well, but is laying an ooth between the branch she is barely hanging from and the bottom of the plastic cage. I hope at least a few will be able to hatch from that one.

I think lack of humidity may be the main issue with my first batch of females and the loss of Vanessa and Marge. The second batch seems to be doing better with some misting, and Cherisse seems to be doing better, and well, at least she isn't egg bound. Thanks to hypoponera for pointing out that his adults 'respond well to increased humidity'.

 
Update:

Well after the near complete failure of the first batch, I finally have some hope with the second batch. Mandy is mating right now with one of her siblings. I still have several males from the first batch, but since Mandy is relatively small, a large male's head would be easy pickins for the fatal reach-around manouvre...

Cherisse died last week without making a second ooth. I'll just be crossing my fingers on the one she made while barely hanging on...

There is one more female from the second batch, but she has barfed several times over the last month and I don't have high hopes that she would successfully mate and lay.

EDIT 7/29/09 :

kamakiri said:
Cherisse died last week without making a second ooth.
Forgot to update that Cherisse actually did make a small second ooth that I did not find until the day that I buried her. It was just well hidden in the crotch of the branch in her enclosure.

 
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just thought id chime in on the chamo thoughts, i had a full batch living in one cage and i think they can change colors when they shed, when the foilage dried or died, the nymphs would shed brown, if i put in new foilage when they where close to shedding they would go back to green, ALL 10 nymphs changed colors to where they liked to pearch, if they were at a brown area and moved to a greener area they changed the drastic colors during there mold, shocked me quite a bit. i do believe they can change without shedding as well. only because my brothers S. limbata did so 2 weeks after a molt, it shed green then after the plants died off it went into a brown chamo colors, both tan and dark brown, almost like a zebra lol. just thought id add my 2 cents in.

 
Yay! Finally, a normal ooth! :D I was pretty sure there was going to be one this morning. Last night, Mandy was probing/tapping the ceiling of her enclosure with her ovipositor. Was way too tired to stay up to watch...but I'm so glad to finally have a new ooth!

 
I guess that poor old Scotty failed to beam up in time! :D
I guess not! :lol: And was thinking I would re-mate Mandy after her first ooth, but she is *extra* agressive for a small female...but I'm thinking it is almost guaranteed to cost me another male. While I don't think it's a bad idea, I'm not doing the cone thing to any of my girls.

 
There is one more female from the second batch, but she has barfed several times over the last month and I don't have high hopes that she would successfully mate and lay.
Just to prove me wrong, this girl "Sandy" (Mandy's sister) laid an ooth this afternoon! A really nice surprise for this one and considering all the problems with my 'first batch' females.

It's been over two weeks since Mandy's last ooth (6/2) and she hasn't been eating, so I'm hoping for her second ooth any day now...

 
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