2008:Noah's Ark FOUND? Who Was informed?

[StevieHification]

Another good book is The Bible as History by Werner Keller- talks a lot about archeological finds, if you're interested in that and real scientific explanations for things people thought were miracles. I find stuff like that interesting, and that's about the extent of my interest in the bible..

I myself am Buddhist, but I think everyone has the right to believe in what they want to believe in. I just rather think that we're going to live and something miraculous happens other then Plant X to come down here and reck havoc on earth and we there's another great flood. Weather you like it or not, Planet X is real and it is going to be within our planet come Dec 21, 2012.

 

[Precarious]

Ok so your telling me that petrified wood does not exist and that carbon dating it fake? Also I know the bible doesn't talk about Gobekli Tepe but that IS a place of worship... 400 miles is also a lot closer to Turkey then anywhere else. Coincidence then right? Everything we know of is just "coincidence" then? Obliviously not if we were wrong about the ancient history people we thought we knew. Again this isn't new news... It just because we're not informed. The Ark supposly found, it made petrified wood. You think it's perfectly good wood? Come on now.... Also if you've ever been to the Museum of Natural Arts down here in New Mexico there are hundreds of WOODEN and METAL artifacts from back in the day... So I don't know where you got that idea from that wood just decays.

I guess you didn't read where I mentioned fossilization. Petrified wood is fossilized wood. A simple search would have cleared that up for you. Google, it's a modern miracle.

The oldest North American metal artifact dates to no later than 2155 BC, but there is evidence of metal working as far as 10,000 BC in the middle east. That doesn't mean we have many/any metal artifacts from that era. And wooden artifacts are extremely rare. But that's neither here nor there.

If you want to believe God told a man to build a big boat and fill it with animals, that boat landed on top of a mountain in Turkey and, against all odds, still exists, even though Christian Evangelicals, those who want to believe the most, have pointed out it is a hoax, then go for it. :tt2:

You're talking to someone that believes the official histories are bunk. But I don't believe what this freakazoid says...

I can see I'm talking to a wall so I won't waste any more effort.

 

[StevieHification]

I didn't miss that part where you mentioned fossilization I was just pointing things out. Let it be what it is then, If it's a hoax then let it be a hoax. So if you don't believe in God or what the ancient Sumerians believed then what do you believe created man?

 

[Precarious]

I didn't miss that part where you mentioned fossilization I was just pointing things out. Let it be what it is then, If it's a hoax then let it be a hoax. So if you don't believe in God or what the ancient Sumerians believed then what do you believe created man?

What I believe is not easily explained because I do not identify with any specific tradition.

I understand that much of religion is based on astrotheology so the myths contain a lot of allegorical references to knowledge about heavenly bodies. That being said, I can find value in most religious writings when viewed from that perspective. Spiritually I vibe most with the early Gnostsic Christians. You know, the ones the official church did their best to erase from history? There is good reason for that. They did not believe in the tyrannical, vengeful deity of the Old Testament, which they referred to as the Demiurge. They understood, as the later Hermeticists and Alchemists did, that consciousness is the universal source of all that there is, that consciousness is our link back to source, and that the journey to truth is a unique, individual experience - so inward is where to look for knowledge. The church would rather you look to them, so they corrupted the Gnostic message by merging the Old and New Testaments. That's why the Bible is a mess of contradictions. They combined completely opposing messages. Is God love or a god of war?

So to me what others refer to as God is the accumulated wholeness of all awareness, of which we are each a fragment. That's about as basic as I can get. I dread even stating that because it sounds corny and generic without all that I've learned to back it up. Science is slowly catching up with these ideas - at least theoretical physics is. The bottom line is you don't need religion or authority figures to find truth. Everything external to self is a distraction from truth, unless you view the world with a mature discerning eye won by prolonged self-analysis and honest, rational assessment.

You are the key to freedom. What you think and how you see the world is what creates your particular reality. I'm not talking about consensus reality, but your personal perspective on the world. No one can touch that unless you allow them to, it's the Holy of Holies, the inner sacrum, so if you fail to find truth it's because you allowed yourself to be mislead rather than struggle to find your own way.

 

[patrickfraser]

I absolutely LOVES IT! If you have never heard Dr. Wayne Dyer, I would suggest reading or viewing "The Power of Intention". I was just blindly flipping through the channels some years ago and stumbled upon this playing on PBS. I was in AWE at how I was feeling all my knowledge boil and bubble. I had so many "OMG" moments, pardon the pun, that I called up PBS during the pledge break, went the whole nine yards and donated the MAX. In return I received the "thank you" gift, "The WHOLE Enchilada"(as Dr.Dyer called it), of "The Power of Intention". Give it a go and tell me you don't get a good amount of "A-HA" moments out of it. If you do, I will have nothing else to say to you about it. :lol:

 

[StevieHification]

I'm watching it right now... AWESOME STUFF! Have you ever heard of the "Laws of Attraction"? More power to me to who ever doesn't believe... Nuff said!

 

[StevieHification]

I absolutely LOVES IT! If you have never heard Dr. Wayne Dyer, I would suggest reading or viewing "The Power of Intention". I was just blindly flipping through the channels some years ago and stumbled upon this playing on PBS. I was in AWE at how I was feeling all my knowledge boil and bubble. I had so many "OMG" moments, pardon the pun, that I called up PBS during the pledge break, went the whole nine yards and donated the MAX. In return I received the "thank you" gift, "The WHOLE Enchilada"(as Dr.Dyer called it), of "The Power of Intention". Give it a go and tell me you don't get a good amount of "A-HA" moments out of it. If you do, I will have nothing else to say to you about it. :lol:

Thank you, Very deep stuff...

 

[Precarious]

I absolutely LOVES IT! If you have never heard Dr. Wayne Dyer, I would suggest reading or viewing "The Power of Intention". I was just blindly flipping through the channels some years ago and stumbled upon this playing on PBS. I was in AWE at how I was feeling all my knowledge boil and bubble. I had so many "OMG" moments, pardon the pun, that I called up PBS during the pledge break, went the whole nine yards and donated the MAX. In return I received the "thank you" gift, "The WHOLE Enchilada"(as Dr.Dyer called it), of "The Power of Intention". Give it a go and tell me you don't get a good amount of "A-HA" moments out of it. If you do, I will have nothing else to say to you about it. :lol:

Never heard of Dr. Wayne Dyer but it appears he is just tapping into Hermetic ideas that have been around since ancient times. I haven't watched much of the video but that is my initial impression. Intention is the core of everything, but there is so much more to know. Things like The Secret are the empty fast food version of serious Hermetic philosophies. Take a look at the Kybalion if you want a serious rundown of Hermetic philosophy.

 

[meaganelise9]

I myself am Buddhist, but I think everyone has the right to believe in what they want to believe in.

So if you don't believe in God or what the ancient Sumerians believed then what do you believe created man?

If you're a Buddhist, why are you assuming someone/something created man?

 

[StevieHification]

If you're a Buddhist, why are you assuming someone/something created man?

Because Buddha did not create the Universe... Also I don't look at Buddha as a god a teacher if anything. Actually most Buddhist look at him at a teacher and not a god...

 

[patrickfraser]

I will check out The Kybalion. It looks like a lot to take in and digest on a full stomach. Maybe when I get hungry, I'll delve deeper into it. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[PhilinYuma]

You'll find the Kybalion pretty straightforward and quite modern; I think that was first published only about a hundred years ago. What often puzzles me about folks who look for "answers" in ancient mystical texts from distant lands like Israel or Tibet, is how they understand the context of what they read. It took me about seven years of steady work to understand the politics, art and social norms of England in the C19 and I was born and raised there.

If you are looking for a practical way to seriously improve your life, I warmly recommend Michael Pollack's In Defense of Food.

Perhaps the biggest differenmce between this and rhe philosophical wonders of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin is that to make it work, you actually have to do something.

 

[Precarious]

You'll find the Kybalion pretty straightforward and quite modern; I think that was first published only about a hundred years ago. What often puzzles me about folks who look for "answers" in ancient mystical texts from distant lands like Israel or Tibet, is how they understand the context of what they read. It took me about seven years of steady work to understand the politics, art and social norms of England in the C19 and I was born and raised there.

If you are looking for a practical way to seriously improve your life, I warmly recommend Michael Pollack's In Defense of Food.

Perhaps the biggest differenmce between this and rhe philosophical wonders of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin is that to make it work, you actually have to do something.

It's all just about getting a different perspective on things. And like you said, the Kybalion is a modernized presentation of ancient ideas which eliminates many of the contextual issues. You don't need to know who came up with an idea, where/when they lived, or what they had for diner to understand that idea. Especially when we're discussing what could be considered universal principles. I mean, Sir Isaac Newton was a well know Alchemist and Hermeticist but that doesn't matter when engaging his more traditionally accepted works, right?

I know you don't believe anything you can't see and quantify, so I don't expect this to ring true to you, but when I find an idea that resonates with me and reflects my personal experiences none of those degrees you covet mean much. I don't care about the education of who said it so long as it speaks to me and makes sense. We've seen plenty of recent examples of experts not knowing their azz from a hole in the ground regarding the economy, global warming and so on. We have plenty of examples from history of self-taught individuals that changed the world. Nikola Tesla didn't have a degree. He dropped out. And you don't have to be an expert to read articles and opinions written by experts. That's what a lot of these researchers do. They read and collate data from diverse sources to form a perspective outside of the mainstream.

Some people take responsibility for their own education which allows for a clean break from the status quo and without that we'd likely see less innovation in the world. I guess it's a matter of choice. Personally, I've ALWAYS had issues with authority figures, and my punk rock roots encouraged me to question all authority. Those ideas felt right to me, so I embraced them. Even though the lyricist didn't have a degree in philosophy, musical theory, or poetry, and I didn't know the context in which he chose to write them, where he lived, etc. None of that matters if the ideas connect with you.

Man, I've got diarrhea of the keyboard today. That's what happens when I only get 4 hours sleep. :sleep1:

 

[PhilinYuma]

Sleep deprived or not, Henry, that sounds like a very persuasive manifesto. As for your statement that I don't believe in anything that is not tangible and quantifiable, I think that that is pretty accurate, though I have a fairly well developed aesthetic sense, so I can enjoy music (Sunny and i are into psy right now, but i can't get her excited by classical music) the novel and poetry, though I am very academic and rigorous in my analysis and a number of my kids' HS teachers have driven me wild with their ignorance.

And yes, of course, our outlook on the world, however well rationalized, has a huge emotional component. Sunny and I, by a curious chance both suffer from a disorder that makes us very bad at reading the expressions of others or sharing their emotions, and are to an extent, emotionally constricted as a condition, not a response. Our end of the spectrum is usually accompanied by a very high verbal IQ and an above average math component, so we have decided that the trade off is in our favor.

Predictably, I strongly oppose the Paterian (WWalter Pater, Wilde's professor) dictum that we should be true "not to mere fact but to our personal sense of fact". That for me is just solipsistic rubbish.

But no, I think that it really does help to know that while Newton was familiar with and perhaps persuaded by the philosophy of his day, including certainly alchemy (I really haven't read his thoughts on hermeticism), and that he wrote his Optics to the greater glory of God., a fact (I just checked!) not mentioned in the Wikipedia article, an omission that removes us slightly from what the man was saying. I think that you summarised the wasted time at the end of Einstein's life when he was trying to demolish the quantum theory. You will remeber, though, that a major reason for this futuile recvisinism was his belief that "God doesn't play dice with the universe". Again, an understanding of a man and his period can help us understand what he is saying. In the last chapter of Gulliver's Travels, Swift maintains his story is the absolute truth and quotes Sinonen from the Aeneid: -NEC SI MISERUM FORTUNA SINONEM FINXIT, VANUM ETIAM, MENDACEMQUE IMPROBA FINGET. I'm sure that we could translate that on Google, but unless we've read the Aeneid we won't know that when Sinonen protested his veracity to the sceptical Trojans, he was lying in his teeth.

And so it goes. Always a pleasure, Hennry, and perhaps I need a little sleep , too.

 

[ismart]

It was so nice of those aliens to help Noah with his ark! :lol:

 

[Precarious]

Sleep deprived or not, Henry, that sounds like a very persuasive manifesto...

Well I could certainly agree with all of that. And, no doubt, context is very important and adds a whole new level of appreciation for any subject. Hope I didn't overstate my case that even without context there is much value to be found in ideas.

I've got to comment, too, that you are the most well read person I've probably ever met. It's rare I find someone who is up on so many subjects in such great detail. Even if you do research spot checking as you go, like I do, to double check. I like to do that to make sure my memory isn't lying to me. It's good positive reinforcement. That being said, yes, I totally understand the context under which Einstein struggled against the mysteries of the quantum world. And kudos that you even know the "dice" quote. One of my favorites. It impacted me deeply when I was first reading up on Quantum Physics. I left all of that out of my little joke about Einstein's sanity for simplicity's sake.

Yeah, I'm with you. A "personal sense of fact" is bull. Very similar to the Neo-Conservative dictum "Lie until people start to believe you". If what you believe doesn't make sense even to yourself you are just lying to yourself - and that's not TRUTH. That's my concern: truth. Even still, my sense of truth varies greatly from the consensus reality version of truth.

I think I know what you're talking about. I'm up on Aspergers. Self-diagnosed, but with some qualities at odds with general symptoms, mainly hypersensitive empathy. I'm overly perceptive to others' emotions to the point I was emotionally crippled. (I wonder if most others instead shut down perception to compensate?) All better now, but I would agree the passion for research is a huge asset. How do you think I picked up on photography so fast? OBSESSION!

As far as Newton goes...

You can't have Alchemy without Hermetics. It is a branch of Hermetics, the art of physically expressing higher spiritual realities that they may be observed directly, under the assumption "as above, so below". You may already know that the term "hermetic seal" originates with the Hermetic art of Alchemy.

Ha-ha! Funny about the psy-trance. That's all I listened to for more than a few years. First thing in the morning and as I fell asleep each night. I was part of a production company in Philadelphia that put on psy events so I had access to everything my DJ buddies had. Fun scene. I'm partial to the dark, hard stuff as well as the more abstract, stripped down flavor coming out of France for a while there (3.turn,

.

 

[HoldThePickle]

I didn't miss that part where you mentioned fossilization I was just pointing things out. Let it be what it is then, If it's a hoax then let it be a hoax. So if you don't believe in God or what the ancient Sumerians believed then what do you believe created man?

I have no idea what created man, but I am perfectly okay with leaving it at that. I doubt anyone will ever KNOW how man was created either. If I had to guess though, I'd say there is some sort of scientific explanation.

 

[crucis]

i don't think man needed creating, any more than a mantis needs creating. In the big picture, humans are functionally similar to any other multi-cellular organism out there - we aren't really special in any way. Assuming there had been a creator, I suggest that He stuck around just long enough to make sure proteins worked and the most basic of cells could replicate (things like these are the true miracles). Then He went on to do other more important things.

 

[Precarious]

Man is essentially a permanent and immortal principle; only his bodies pass through the cycle of birth and death. The immortal is the reality; the mortal is the unreality. During each period of earth life, reality thus dwells in unreality, to be liberated from it temporarily by death and permanently by illumination.

Manly P. Hall - The Secret Teachings of All Ages

 

[PhilinYuma]

http://www.christian-apologetics-resources-and-education.com/Purpose-of-Man.html

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness"...So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Genesis 1:26a, 27

"Did God create to have companionship? Yes He did, but not for the reason commonly thought. God is not lonely without mankind, because He is in an eternal relationship within the Trinity. He did not need mankind in order to fulfill Himself or any need, because He is by definition 'needless'. He created because that is what a Creator does, and He created man so that He could express His Loving nature by giving:

Now this is really interesting. Here is a gentleman who not only knows the mind of God but knows it better than those who "commonly think" otherwise. He may be right. Manly P. Hall may be right, though whether or not we agree with them has no bearing on the accuracy of their worldly or heavenly view. On one level, it may be delightful to embrace the world view of someone we revere, but in doing so, we have to reject as flawed or nonsensical (read up on much Scientology lately?) just about everyone else's

I could argue that Man was created a little lower than the Mantis. The mantis maintains his place in the biomass, neither increasing nor decreasing significantly over time until conditions change to cause his extinction on the species level. Mantids do not destroy their environment. Man, frequently with a higher birthrate than deathrate, continues to swarm over the planet willy nilly, destroying natural resources and driving more species to extinction than any creature has done before. Mantids may kill each other for food. Men kill each other for fun ot hate and seldom eat their kill.

But. This afternoon I went to see young Sunny on her return from visiting her boyfriend in LA. As usual, we talked solidly for the four hours that I was there. We settled several important world problems as well as a couple of personal issues and made an interesting concoction of shrimp simmered in diced tomatoes, "creamed" with coconut milk. As I left, I said how good it was to talk to her again after her week's absence, and she said "We'll talk again tomorrow, right?" Mantids can't do that yet.