2008:Noah's Ark FOUND? Who Was informed?

[MantidLord]

The people on this forum attacking Christian/Judaism should be ashamed of themselves. Stop attacking others' beliefs, I have yet to see a thread where Christians try to convert or preach on this forum, so why come out of no where and attack them? This forum is about mantids and when you act foolish and attack others' beliefs, it causes an unnecessary division within our community. If you don't agree with something, keep your mouth shut and take it to the forums where you can rant about christians all day long. You can argue against the Bible all you want and have your OPINIONS, but when you start attacking the belief and calling it "myths" and comparing it to easter bunnies, you do nothing but make yourself look bitter and pathetic. I'm saying this, not to really change the behaviors of those who CONTINUE to do this (because I doubt they'll listen anyway), but as a message to the mods of this forum to not allow this gross behavior to continue. I'm personally offended and letting my grievances known by posting on here: STOP ATTACKING RELIGIONS AND KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOURSELF.

 

[patrickfraser]

STOP TRYING TO PROMOTE RELIGION!

 

[MantidLord]

I should've known I'd get an idiotic response from you. Anyone with half a brain can see I never supported religion. If I had, I'd respond to the statements above that were posted to contradict it. I simply don't want people's beliefs to be criticized as if they're sub human for having different beliefs. If you can't do that, or see where I'm coming from; and if you take offense to what I'm trying to do, then you obviously have nothing better to do than stir up trouble. Get a life man. I'm not being drawn into this argument to defend my beliefs, so stop being immature.

 

[patrickfraser]

Whatevs, GOD bless you and your beliefs.

 

[Precarious]

The people on this forum attacking Christian/Judaism should be ashamed of themselves. Stop attacking others' beliefs, I have yet to see a thread where Christians try to convert or preach on this forum, so why come out of no where and attack them? This forum is about mantids and when you act foolish and attack others' beliefs, it causes an unnecessary division within our community. If you don't agree with something, keep your mouth shut and take it to the forums where you can rant about christians all day long. You can argue against the Bible all you want and have your OPINIONS, but when you start attacking the belief and calling it "myths" and comparing it to easter bunnies, you do nothing but make yourself look bitter and pathetic. I'm saying this, not to really change the behaviors of those who CONTINUE to do this (because I doubt they'll listen anyway), but as a message to the mods of this forum to not allow this gross behavior to continue. I'm personally offended and letting my grievances known by posting on here: STOP ATTACKING RELIGIONS AND KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOURSELF.

I'm not attacking anything. I'm being rational and sharing information. People are free to believe whatever they want.

Are you implying I don't have the right to an opinion? Or that others are too weak to deal with the fact I may not agree with them?

This has been nothing but a civil discussion. Orin is an admin. He didn't choose to delete it. He participated.

You can just choose not to participate.

 

[Precarious]

I'm not being drawn into this argument to defend my beliefs, so stop being immature.

You chose to involve yourself. And no one asked you your beliefs or to defend them from some perceived attack.

I'm pointing out the difference between tradition and really digging into ancient texts. And what I've found is very different from the mainstream interpretation. Big whoop! Who am I? Believe it or don't. Embrace it or move on. No big deal either way. You seem to want to make it into a big deal.

Ain't nobody changing their belief system because of a forum post.

Have a pleasant SUNday...

 

[angelofdeathzz]

I like turtles! HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL !!! (needed to be said?)

 

[HoldThePickle]

The people on this forum attacking Christian/Judaism should be ashamed of themselves. Stop attacking others' beliefs, I have yet to see a thread where Christians try to convert or preach on this forum, so why come out of no where and attack them? This forum is about mantids and when you act foolish and attack others' beliefs, it causes an unnecessary division within our community. If you don't agree with something, keep your mouth shut and take it to the forums where you can rant about christians all day long. You can argue against the Bible all you want and have your OPINIONS, but when you start attacking the belief and calling it "myths" and comparing it to easter bunnies, you do nothing but make yourself look bitter and pathetic. I'm saying this, not to really change the behaviors of those who CONTINUE to do this (because I doubt they'll listen anyway), but as a message to the mods of this forum to not allow this gross behavior to continue. I'm personally offended and letting my grievances known by posting on here: STOP ATTACKING RELIGIONS AND KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOURSELF.

Grow up.

 

[PhilinYuma]

i see one answer, can you prove the bible to be wrong? no questions or replies, i dont think you can.

My goodness John, Scott and Henry didn't leave much for me, did they? Still, I'll do what i can. Let's be clear on your question. If you are asking us if we can prove that the bible contains false statements, then that is easy enough. Can we use the edition of the bible with the King James and New International versions in parallel? That's the one I usually use, but if you prefer one with an Imprimatur, I have the New American Bible that Sunny gave me (she didn't think that a good jewish girl should keep a catholic bible in her bedroom). Do you also agree that if the bible contains two statements that flatly contradict each other, then one or both must be false? How about statements that contradict what is normally considered to be undisputed fact?

In the second class, Lev 11:6 "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud" makes the hare (in the KJV and rabbit it in the NIV or either and both in the Torah) describes the hare/rabbit as a ruminant, which he clearly is not. I have read protestant exegeses (you'd be amazed how bored we sufferers from ADHD can get, sometimes!) which claim that back in them old days, "chewing the cud"was a "less restrictive" term than now, and talked learnedly about bunny poo, buit i have three modern translations that all use the phrase and it is these translations that we have to go by. More to the point, why does this sacred, infallible (to some Christians) admonition find its way into a the Christians' Book, when no Christian follows it and doesn't even know the distinction between Kosher and Traif? Pretty odd, huh?

O.K., I'll just give you the citations for the other type of error, internal contradiction. Gen 32:30 has Jacob calling the place of his famous meeting "Peniel; for I have seen God face to face." In John 1:18, the author makes an important distinction between the world before Christ's death and after it:" No one has ever seen God." For the sake of fairness, I quoted this from the catholic translation. They gloss the line without a comment on Genesis 32:30, but say "the translation above follows the earliest and best manuscripts." Seems as though there are different early versions of the material that comprises the infallibly "right" bible, doesn't it, though a true-blue fundamentalist could dismiss the last as the misinformation of a cult (Catholicism) that practises idolatory and whose members will not get to heaven, anyway.

So there you go, John. You didn't ask for an argument, merely evidence that the bible is not "true", and that is all I have given you. Philosophically, Henry is quite right, of course, when he says that the burden of proof lies not with the disbelievers but with those who claim that it s absolutely true. If I may make a suggestion, I would suggest that you embrace your simple and comforting faith tightly for your own soul's salvation and not use it as a challenge for those who know a lot more about biblical exegesis than you, even if, in your god's eyes, they are bound for everlasting fire..

 

[Precarious]

If I may make a suggestion, I would suggest that you embrace your simple and comforting faith tightly for your own soul's salvation and not use it as a challenge for those who know a lot more about biblical exegesis than you, even if, in your god's eyes, they are bound for everlasting fire..

Ha-ha! Yeah, but if Satan is the ruler of this world then technically we're already in He11...

"Now is the time for the judgment of this world to begin. Now will the ruler of this world be thrown out."

John 12:31

OK, I'll stop. :blush: I was just kidding. I know what that passage really means.

By the way, I gave the wrong link in my earlier post. This is the best site to look up passages because they show all English versions at once for comparison plus cross references! Woo-hoo!

http://bible.cc/

And I probably should have posted this at some point:

Logos (

/ˈloʊɡɒs/, UK /ˈlɒɡɒs/, or US /ˈloʊɡoʊs/; Greek: λόγος logos) is an important term in philosophy, psychology, rhetoric and religion. Originally a word meaning "a ground", "a plea", "an opinion", "an expectation", "word," "speech," "account," "reason," it became a technical term in philosophy, beginning with Heraclitus (ca. 535–475 BC), who used the term for a principle of order and knowledge.

In ordinary, non-technical Greek, logos had a semantic field extending beyond "word" to notions such as, on the one hand, language, talk, statement, speech, conversation, tale, story, prose, proposition, and principle; and on the other hand, thought, reason, account, consideration, esteem, due relation, proportion, and analogy.

Despite the conventional translation as "word," it is not used for a word in the grammatical sense; instead, the term lexis (λέξις) was used. However, both logos and lexis derive from the same verb legō (λέγω), meaning "to count, tell, say, speak".

In English, logos is the root of "logic," and of the "-logy" suffix (e.g., geology).

As you can see Logos means a lot more than "word". It implies meaning which is sometimes expressed through words, but it's core is related more to information/intent/reason as can clearly be seen in the definition above. To limit translation simply as "word" robs it of much of its power and meaning, and opens the door to convincing people to follow the letter of law, generated by man, as if this is the intent of its usage within religious texts. So the key to our individual freedom, thinking for ourselves, making good use of our god-given Free Will, is instead twisted into a means by which authority controls the people.

Logos flows through me and exposes the lies that occlude this world. In my heart there is nothing but Logos and Eros for all of you and all living creatures. I apologize if my words (not Logos) upset or enrage you. I only seek to speak TRUTH.

You cannot know God through words alone, and that is the trick. Memorization of text means NOTHING if the meaning is lost in literal interpretation. Think for yourself, be fair and open, and you will be doing your job as a good human being. Anyone can agree with that, no matter their religion or whether they even believe in God.

E.N.D. R.A.N.T.

 

[Termite48]

Somethings like this will be better understood by us later. Now we should keep to the bugs in this forum, eh?

 

[HoldThePickle]

Somethings like this will be better understood by us later. Now we should keep to the bugs in this forum, eh?

I really enjoy religious discussions/debates, why should we have to avoid it?? Besides, the description of this forum is "Discussions not relating to mantids or mantid keeping."

 

[PhilinYuma]

Somethings like this will be better understood by us later. Now we should keep to the bugs in this forum, eh?

You mean after we're dead, Rich? I doubt that it will do us much good then! Besides, the "other discussions" forum was designed, surely, to give us a break from folks asking how many nymphs will hatch from their Chinese ooth. You don't have to play if you don't want to, but let us have our fun!

 

[Orin]

Ain't nobody changing their belief system because of a forum post.

I don't imagine you'll suddenly develop the ability to read the scripture on its own merit, I just thought it seemed fair to explain that your argument while full of words and posturing has no truth. Your spouting off lies as old as history itself as though they're some mystical theory discovered recently, nearly all the heretical texts are just a few incoherent paragraphs but you pretend there's a whole secrete code. Sorry prince of this world and father of lies are just a few of many names. I would suppose the dozens of names for Christ in the New Testament are speaking of multiple people in your discerning eyes. The God of the Old Testament didn't let Abraham's son be sacrificed but let his own son be crucified in the New Testament. If anything the New Testament Jehovah is less kind. I can't tell if yours is a sick sense of humor or you’re really that blinded.

 

[MantidLord]

"Grow up."

Don't talk to me like that Pickle. Especially when I haven't said anything to you or anyone else (besides patrick) in particular. Show some respect or don't post at all, just keep your mouth shut.

The sarcasm that's I'm reading about religion on this forum has been going on for some time and I'm sick of it. Precarious, I wasn't specifically talking to you. I have no problem with a "civil" discussion. But when you liken someone's beliefs to easter bunnies and mock it, that goes beyond "discussion". I honestly couldn't care less about your opinions (I do like your pics and videos), like I said, and you said, it won't change anyone. Just please show some respect when you state your opinions, because what you and others said can be taken as offensive.

I fail to understand why my post has generated all of this negative backlash. I didn't call someone out, so those that are responding to it are obviously the ones that have taken offense and realize that they are wrong. Throw a dog at a pack of dogs, the one that barks loudest is the one that got hit. People are free to have their own opinions, although I haven't stated mine on this thread at all, just have respect is all I'm saying. If someone mocked atheism or islam, or anything else, I'd feel the same way. Have a good day.

 

[gripen]

mantidlord has a point, you don't have to accept someones opinion but at least respect it. speaking as an atheist i can still appreciate religion. it is not wise to just dismiss religion, it has its time and its place and you should respect that.

 

[Orin]

Grow up.

If you're going to make argumentative comments to other members without even including a little discussion or explanation at the beginning or end please do not post.

 

[Termite48]

What I mean Phil and others who might wonder what I mean by "later", is "soon" we will know positively what we should know now. If the truth about all the stuff herein discussed does not easily come to some or most, it will as time runs a little longer. There will always be unbelief, even when very obvious truths are presented. So please conjecture on, but not much will be resolved. Because some of us (not I) are very expert in Mantidology does not make us very expert in Theology, Eschatology, or Philosophy. So when one who has earned his stripes on this Forum as a great breeder, macrophotographer, or bug hunter, he/she has not earned anything in the studies of the origin of mankind, Theology or the Bible and other ancient writings. We are equally confused.

 

[PhilinYuma]

"I fail to understand why my post has generated all of this negative backlash. I didn't call someone out, so those that are responding to it are obviously the ones that have taken offense and realize that they are wrong."

@mantidlord: Sadly, I believe you. I suspect from your posts here and in the recent past, that you often find the world to be an incomprehsible and and hostile place. If I am wrong, then you can save yourself a lot of grief by not reading threads like this,. I believe that you are now in college and not keeping mantids, so you will not lose anything by avoiding this particular forum while still staying on the board.

If I am right, I suggest that you copy off this thread and show it to someone, a minister or counselor, perhaps, whom you trust, and seek their opinion and advice on resolving this problem and saving yourself a lot of mental and emotional anguish.

This is offered as a friendly suggestion. I hope that you can take it as such.

 

[angelofdeathzz]

I'm starting to think that a few of you, if you lived close enough to each other, there may be some house egging going on soon? Or would it be a burning bag of on the door step?

I'm going to have to ask my Uncle if he still has some of those hippie love beads from the 60's and start mailing them out.