Irrelivant.
There is no reason that a caresheet can't be multi species. The point is to list the species, instead of saying "this will probrably work, good luck".
Care Sheets by MantidForum.Net
- Thread starter sporeworld
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There is no reason that a caresheet can't be multi species. The point is to list the species, instead of saying "this will probrably work, good luck".
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Well Peter J F, If you mess with the bull you get the horns. ^_^
I think Rick is off his meds again?
Don't ream me too bad Rick It's only a joke, and honestly you have a point.
I think Rick is off his meds again?
Don't ream me too bad Rick It's only a joke, and honestly you have a point.
Krissim Klaw
Well-known member
I certainly don't think a couple care sheets could hurt, but I agree with some of the others that we really don't need one for every species. One of the things I like about mantises is for the most part they are hardy and easy to care for. In fact the only species that sounds all that intimidating is those Idolos everyone is always raving on about. I would also say that 99% of the people that would come running in looking for emergency info on some mantis that got dumped in their lap would also have one of those basic easy species that are generally pretty hard to kill off.
If someone is getting an especially exotic species I would always think they would simply ask the breeder they are purchasing from most of the basics. I know I always ask the peeps I buy new species from any questions I have, generally even before deciding if I want to try the species out.
I like to keep it simple and stress free with my bugs. Truth is, I have no idea what temp their cages are, they get whatever else is going on in the house that day. I also couldn't tell you their current humidity level and despite what I have heard time and time again by all the experts, I still swear by the importance of making sure they get natural sunlight on a regular basis. :tt2:
If someone is getting an especially exotic species I would always think they would simply ask the breeder they are purchasing from most of the basics. I know I always ask the peeps I buy new species from any questions I have, generally even before deciding if I want to try the species out.
I like to keep it simple and stress free with my bugs. Truth is, I have no idea what temp their cages are, they get whatever else is going on in the house that day. I also couldn't tell you their current humidity level and despite what I have heard time and time again by all the experts, I still swear by the importance of making sure they get natural sunlight on a regular basis. :tt2:
sporeworld
Well-known member
Well, speaking for the people who "can't seem to use their own brains and come up with something on their own", I think this is a case of the have and have nots. It's like intellectual elitism, and it can drive away nice folk and leave the bitter elite to their lonely, empty forum. Or 5 or 6 active members berating the timid lurker who dares to ask a "stupid" question. :-(
I still believe this forum was engineered for the free flow of information. If that can flow easier, and be more welcoming, why not...? I could make a post this weekend featuring links to other people's caresheet on the web and be done with it. But do we really want to direct new people AWAY from this forum...?
Note: "Common sense" is far from common. Even drinking from a cup needed to be learned - (hint: the open part points up).
I still believe this forum was engineered for the free flow of information. If that can flow easier, and be more welcoming, why not...? I could make a post this weekend featuring links to other people's caresheet on the web and be done with it. But do we really want to direct new people AWAY from this forum...?
Note: "Common sense" is far from common. Even drinking from a cup needed to be learned - (hint: the open part points up).
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Glad to see that you have abandoned your "whatever works' approach for an outright attack on the "haves". You don't appear to be offering anything, but demanding it. "If you [forum administration] don't provide care sheets on specific mantids, you will lose potential forum membersand fail to keep new ones".
New members don't really want "care sheets", they want to know that it is O.K. to keep their new mantis (complete with cute name) in a critter keeper or plastic food container. Years before you joined, a member opened his own website and advertised a rate for a hack to write mantis caresheets. One mantis vendor, probably now extinct, kept on his site a bunch of "care sheets" by a teenager, long out of the hobby, that gave splendid advice, like "don't feed your mantids anything that can sting or bite"
A few people, like Rick, give good advice, year after year (look at the number of posts he has made!), to all of the new members who flood this forum, for free. He will continue to give it, probably long after you have gone on to fresh fields and pastures new. If you and like minded members want care sheets, then design a few dozen and submit them to the forum's owner. Until then, you are hardly arguing from a position of strength.
New members don't really want "care sheets", they want to know that it is O.K. to keep their new mantis (complete with cute name) in a critter keeper or plastic food container. Years before you joined, a member opened his own website and advertised a rate for a hack to write mantis caresheets. One mantis vendor, probably now extinct, kept on his site a bunch of "care sheets" by a teenager, long out of the hobby, that gave splendid advice, like "don't feed your mantids anything that can sting or bite"
A few people, like Rick, give good advice, year after year (look at the number of posts he has made!), to all of the new members who flood this forum, for free. He will continue to give it, probably long after you have gone on to fresh fields and pastures new. If you and like minded members want care sheets, then design a few dozen and submit them to the forum's owner. Until then, you are hardly arguing from a position of strength.
Unless you (Phil) get there first and tell the new member they should be using the search function instead of asking questions that have been asked before.
I am fairly certain that Spore's intent was for us as a community to work on the fact sheets. Not for them to be produced out of the aether.
It's a fair topic for discussion.
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
I don't think that I have, have I, PJ,? Though it is a sound observation Can you cite an example? It seems that I spend a fair amount of time giving simple answers to simple questions when no one else (how about you?) has done so. I have gotten a lot from this forum, so I don't mind giving a little back.
I have no problem with the community working on fact sheets, but so far, I have not seen it happen. Perhaps you and Spore will be the first? Alas, though, be prepared for the fact that many members who have contributed nothing will be happy to poke holes in your care sheets!
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Well Sporeworld is a A1 member to this forum bar none, he gives to people and wants no fame or recognition so don't judge him unless you have talked to him personally like I have had the Honor to do!!!! he is just trying to make one small point, its not worth brother against brother. SO YOU ALL JUST COOL OUT for a minute...###### is this place coming too,
PEACE OUT
PEACE OUT
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PhilinYuma
Well-known member
I, for one, death angel, didn't mean to upset you, and aside from agreeing with your estimate of Sporeworld, I would add that Peter JF recently did me a real service and I have no bad feeling towards him at all,.On the contrary, I hope to be able to help him out as he has me.
The art of the well diected insult is, though, a skill in itself, I think. Several years ago, one of my closest personal friends who was then active on this forum, insulted a sub teen girl in such a foul misogynist way that the child never posted on the forum again, but she did it so skillfully that no one thought to push the "report " button. When folks tell me that I am "arrogant" or that I am the "pot calling the kettle black", I have to smile, because my granddaughter Sunny can do better than that without even getting out of bed! Such things are relative, I guess!
The art of the well diected insult is, though, a skill in itself, I think. Several years ago, one of my closest personal friends who was then active on this forum, insulted a sub teen girl in such a foul misogynist way that the child never posted on the forum again, but she did it so skillfully that no one thought to push the "report " button. When folks tell me that I am "arrogant" or that I am the "pot calling the kettle black", I have to smile, because my granddaughter Sunny can do better than that without even getting out of bed! Such things are relative, I guess!
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Hey Ima FILLIN Its angelofdeathzz, just so you can remember???
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Oh, of course! I was probably thinking of "teen angel." So you're the angel of death from Byron's poem, The Destruction of Sennacherib -- "For the angel of death spread his wings on the blast/And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed". I think that that was published in the same year as the Battle of Waterloo. You know the talmudic tradition is that the particular angel of death involved in that strange halitosic disaster was the Archangel Gabriel.
Can we call you Gabe?
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Your twice my age and then some!!! so in a war of wisdom I must concede to your wordisim but I got lucky 3 times this week. what you got???---- thats what I thought.
and Gabe is fine if you must. lol
wow how thing's get weird quick lately???
But on the other hand just because you have more knowlegde than most of us does not make you right on all subject matter. it makes you outdated on many of things just to keep you up to date.
I can't wait to hear how bitter smart you sound on your next reponce? so lets hear it mantid guru(not my yoda) Sporeworld is a better teacher. OLD MAN
and Gabe is fine if you must. lol
wow how thing's get weird quick lately???
But on the other hand just because you have more knowlegde than most of us does not make you right on all subject matter. it makes you outdated on many of things just to keep you up to date.
I can't wait to hear how bitter smart you sound on your next reponce? so lets hear it mantid guru(not my yoda) Sporeworld is a better teacher. OLD MAN
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PhilinYuma
Well-known member
You go, Gabe! Tell that old f.. fellow, what for. And don't feel bad about only getting lucky thrice in one week. The same thing happened to me, once, when I was your age, right after major surgery as I remember. It is really nice that you want to stick up for your friend, but I suspect that if he felt maligned, he could stick up for himself pretty well! Now, back on topic, off you go and write a care sheet!
Bitenomnom
Member
Er, so, I hope it's okay to mention this since the topic has diverged somewhat and I'm a newbie on this forum and all, but on the "people coming here looking for information" front -- I don't know if it was an error or something, but when I came here and tried to take a look at the forums, a message came up telling me that I had to join in order to read the content of the forums. I did, of course, and without much grumbling, but all I had really wanted to do was read about others' experiences and such while deciding if/when I should get a mantis, and maybe dipping my toes in the water of the community before posting. If I weren't used to this type of setup from all my milling around similar sites, or if I was, say, the parent of some kid who had just gotten a mantis as a present and I was just trying to find information as quickly as possible -- this whole "you have to sign up" business would have probably kept me away.
Like I said, maybe it was just an error, but if this setup is the case I think the best thing for most people would be to keep the forums open to be viewed by guests, and encourage people who are lurking as guests to sign up for accounts in order to post their questions if they can't find the answers. If this is already how it is, I'm sorry, and I have no idea why I got that error.
If I were to give my newbie two cents on the issue at hand, I'd say that there is a natural appeal to care sheets. I mean, I know that once I own an animal for a while I will realize I needn't do this-or-that exactly, but it's a comforting starting point. For me (a person who is looking into getting a mantis but hasn't had any experience with them yet) what I would like to see would be something like the assurance that by and large care for the mantids is the same, some general guidelines for that care, and maybe a few asterisks tossed around for the breeds that need more attention/care in some area or another. (I mean, I don't know enough to know if that's practical, but it's the impression I get. Like: "Keep mantids in this general humidity range*" -- "* except for this one breed, make sure it's at least this much.") And a friendly nice reminder for the "suddenly a mantis owner" type that any extra questions or concerns can be addressed in the appropriate forum. From my experience around caudata.org (I own a couple of axolotls) it tends to work out well -- the panicked new owner has all the information that has been compiled by the most knowledgeable people to start from in the form of care sheets on the site (they have it split up into some categories -- housing, feeding, breeding, illnesses, and so on, on the forums as well as in the care sheets), rather than thirty people of varying levels of experience tossing out figures and comments of assorted levels of relevance that the new owner then has to decipher and choose between (granted, said person could theoretically identify the most experienced people on the board, but I'm not sure if it's that obvious to someone who's not used to using forums). I don't know if that happens around here, but it's a thought to consider, I guess.
Whew! Anyway, sorry to rant. Er, hope I'm not too out of line. Just trying to help.
EDIT: Heh, a couple of posts happened in the time it took me to compose that, er, novel, so I guess at least saying the topic had diverged was not entirely correct.
Like I said, maybe it was just an error, but if this setup is the case I think the best thing for most people would be to keep the forums open to be viewed by guests, and encourage people who are lurking as guests to sign up for accounts in order to post their questions if they can't find the answers. If this is already how it is, I'm sorry, and I have no idea why I got that error.
If I were to give my newbie two cents on the issue at hand, I'd say that there is a natural appeal to care sheets. I mean, I know that once I own an animal for a while I will realize I needn't do this-or-that exactly, but it's a comforting starting point. For me (a person who is looking into getting a mantis but hasn't had any experience with them yet) what I would like to see would be something like the assurance that by and large care for the mantids is the same, some general guidelines for that care, and maybe a few asterisks tossed around for the breeds that need more attention/care in some area or another. (I mean, I don't know enough to know if that's practical, but it's the impression I get. Like: "Keep mantids in this general humidity range*" -- "* except for this one breed, make sure it's at least this much.") And a friendly nice reminder for the "suddenly a mantis owner" type that any extra questions or concerns can be addressed in the appropriate forum. From my experience around caudata.org (I own a couple of axolotls) it tends to work out well -- the panicked new owner has all the information that has been compiled by the most knowledgeable people to start from in the form of care sheets on the site (they have it split up into some categories -- housing, feeding, breeding, illnesses, and so on, on the forums as well as in the care sheets), rather than thirty people of varying levels of experience tossing out figures and comments of assorted levels of relevance that the new owner then has to decipher and choose between (granted, said person could theoretically identify the most experienced people on the board, but I'm not sure if it's that obvious to someone who's not used to using forums). I don't know if that happens around here, but it's a thought to consider, I guess.
Whew! Anyway, sorry to rant. Er, hope I'm not too out of line. Just trying to help.
EDIT: Heh, a couple of posts happened in the time it took me to compose that, er, novel, so I guess at least saying the topic had diverged was not entirely correct.
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sporeworld
Well-known member
Yikes!
Well, thanks for the good words (and bad ones, I guess). I think we're getting somewhere... you know, fightin' words aside.
Yeah, I'm happy to submit a caresheet example or two to get things moving. And I'm a brainstormer by trade, so I'm open to constructive critism. Hopefully we can collaborate and have fun in the process. I can't start til late in the week, but I'll give it a go. I'll stick to species I have experience with, and maybe Entomologic or one of the other authorities can chime in with corrections.
BTW, as newbie advice, "don't give them anything that can sting or bite" isn't completely useless. FF's, BB's and HF's are all compatable with that advice, and for the majority of species, meet the minimal standard of nutrition. But I get your point.
And, as Peter J F noted, my intent IS/WAS for the forum community to work on the fact sheets. I'll try to word things more clearly in the future... and maybe use more happy emoticons!
Peace.
Well, thanks for the good words (and bad ones, I guess). I think we're getting somewhere... you know, fightin' words aside.
Yeah, I'm happy to submit a caresheet example or two to get things moving. And I'm a brainstormer by trade, so I'm open to constructive critism. Hopefully we can collaborate and have fun in the process. I can't start til late in the week, but I'll give it a go. I'll stick to species I have experience with, and maybe Entomologic or one of the other authorities can chime in with corrections.
BTW, as newbie advice, "don't give them anything that can sting or bite" isn't completely useless. FF's, BB's and HF's are all compatable with that advice, and for the majority of species, meet the minimal standard of nutrition. But I get your point.
And, as Peter J F noted, my intent IS/WAS for the forum community to work on the fact sheets. I'll try to word things more clearly in the future... and maybe use more happy emoticons!
Peace.
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Hey Phil, my hats off to you! you are funny, and mostly right ,and it's not Gabe, and I'm gunna work on that three times,LOL
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sporeworld
Well-known member
Hey, Bitenomnom - Nice!
I checked out this careheet on the site you recomended:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_tigrinum.shtml
Very clean - nice pics and a good approach. That site has obviously put a lot of work into their content. So, I've got a lot of research to do. Thanks. :angry:
I checked out this careheet on the site you recomended:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_tigrinum.shtml
Very clean - nice pics and a good approach. That site has obviously put a lot of work into their content. So, I've got a lot of research to do. Thanks. :angry:
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Bitenomnom
Member
Ah, admittedly I haven't looked at that particular care sheet (I own axolotls, don't have to worry about all that pesky transformation business of tiger salamanders and the like). What I meant to point out was this one; I keep forgetting that caudata.org isn't set up exactly like it used to be: http://www.axolotl.org/Hey, Bitenomnom - Nice!
I checked out this careheet on the site you recomended:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_tigrinum.shtml
Very clean - nice pics and a good approach. That site has obviously put a lot of work into their content. So, I've got a lot of research to do. Thanks. :angry:
Similar, anyway, but a little more approachable in my opinion.
Heh, sorry.
I don't know that site's history, but I imagine they (and in particular the founder) put a great deal of time into it. I'm sure something that fancy wouldn't be necessary at least to start with. It seems to be a much bigger site, anyway, than this one (oodles and oodles of forums and subforums since it's dedicated to all caudates; though I imagine a majority of the traffic is axolotl owners) so such things are to be expected. I feel pretty at home already here since these forums remind me a lot of those, in setup and so on.Anyway, I hope I don't come off as uppity or mean or anything, with all my fancy semicolons and so on. :lol: Just trying to seem competent to make up for my lack of mantid knowledge (that is, of course, being remedied as I digest all the content here).
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Hey, Bitenomnom, Sporeworld is right, very nice indeed! Writing coherently and accurately (love those subjunctives!) in an informal manner, as you do, is rather harder than writing formally to the same end. I see that you list "writing" as one of your interests (I also noticed that you avoided, quite correctly, the use of the semi colon!); don't let the English department lure you away from your chosen path, not because you wouldn't do well there, but because science is, finally, more rewarding! I personally find your argument more persuasive than the facts merit, a real tribute to your rhetorical skill!
Bitenomnom
Member
D'aw, thank you! I do what I can. :blush:
(Don't worry -- most of the writing that I do is fanfiction, heh. Between being a scientist who's a good writer and a writer who knows some science, I'll opt for the former, I think.)
(Don't worry -- most of the writing that I do is fanfiction, heh. Between being a scientist who's a good writer and a writer who knows some science, I'll opt for the former, I think.)
