Enclosure Size

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DefyTheNorms

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When it comes to calculating the minimum enclosure size, it is based to give enough room for molting, correct? I was planning on keeping a Rainforest mantis in a 8x8x12 terrarium. Once it has substrate this will cut it down to less than 12 high. I was told I should have taller because they can grow  up to 4" long. So I bought the next size up which was much bigger at 18" high. But then I started thinking, adults don't molt, so a 4" at adult would not require molting room, therefore wouldn't the 8x8x12 be large enough to house an adult? I'm just thinking shouldn't minimum final enclosure size be calculated at subadult? Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong. I know the more room the better, as long as they can find food. I'm just looking at the 'minimum' enclosure size for adults, since I have extra 8x8x12 terrariums, but have been avoiding getting more giant species because I thought they would not be large enough to house adults.

 
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My H. majuscula is in a 12x12x12 exo terra and it housed my Rhombodera as well with no issues. Both of them molted to adult in 8x8x16 terrariums but I wanted to give them a bit more room to move around because they really just prefer to hang from the top so all that height wasn't really crucial for them after their final molts. They could probably have stayed in the 8x8x16 but I wanted to give them a bit more "floor space" (or ceiling space I guess), but I definitely think an adult could go into an 8x8x12! The great thing about adults is that you can decorate their enclosures a bit more freely since they won't molt, so for that reason alone I'd use the larger size but I don't think the mantis cares :)  

 
My H. majuscula is in a 12x12x12 exo terra and it housed my Rhombodera as well with no issues. Both of them molted to adult in 8x8x16 terrariums but I wanted to give them a bit more room to move around because they really just prefer to hang from the top so all that height wasn't really crucial for them after their final molts. They could probably have stayed in the 8x8x16 but I wanted to give them a bit more "floor space" (or ceiling space I guess), but I definitely think an adult could go into an 8x8x12! The great thing about adults is that you can decorate their enclosures a bit more freely since they won't molt, so for that reason alone I'd use the larger size but I don't think the mantis cares :)  
Awesome! I do have two 12x12x18s to house my largest species as adults, just so (like you said) there is more space to move and decorate, but I''m happy that the 8x8x12s are big enough for me go get more than 2 of the larger species if I wish, without having to buy more large terrariums. Thanks! 

 
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When it comes to calculating the minimum enclosure size, it is based to give enough room for molting, correct? I was planning on keeping a Rainforest mantis in a 8x8x12 terrarium. Once it has substrate this will cut it down to less than 12 high. I was told I should have taller because they can grow  up to 4" long. So I bought the next size up which was much bigger at 18" high.
It seems you hit the important points yourself, just talking out loud about it. ;)

Yes, the minimum sizes is to ensure proper molting. That is the adult mantid length size - the habitat needs to be at least twice the mantid length for habitat width and length, and three times that for the height.

Indeed the current instar has a bearing on habitat size too. For example a L2 nymph is often lost in such a large tank when it comes feeding time. In that aspect many keepers will have multiple habitat sizes for nymphs as they grow to ensure they have molting room, but still easily find their prey. While mantids in the wild are only limited by the Earth, they have an entire ecosystem and can easily move to where their is prey (but are not options in a habitat).

For my Carolina nymphs (Stagmomantis carolina) I start them off in 9oz cups, move them in 32oz deli cups, and lastly tall 1quart containers.

If you do use smaller habitats and switch them as needed, ensure that the habitat fits them for at least one molt. Using the mantids current size the habitat should be at least three times their length for height, but I error on the side of caution and use four times their current length.

I'm just thinking shouldn't minimum final enclosure size be calculated at subadult?
If you are putting in a mantid that is not an adult yet the answer is no - if it is an adult see below response.

The subadult is a stage that needs the most molting room as it will be molting to a large adult. Besides molting from the exuviae (shed exoskeleton) and sitting on it and stretching to dry, they also will uncurl their wings seemingly inflating them. I like to give my mantids extra room especially at this final molt to ensure they do not have deformed wings or other common issues.

But then I started thinking, adults don't molt, so a 4" at adult would not require molting room, therefore wouldn't the 8x8x12 be large enough to house an adult?
Adults with wings of course no longer molt, and can be housed in smaller habitats. I've heard keepers sometimes use a tank size that is twice the mantids length for all measurements. Personally when possible I give my adults the opposite, massive amounts of room. Such as my 2.5" Carolina female I put into a 32" x 12" x 13" habitat I made that filled a entire shelf.

My adults that were housed in large habitats were more active exploring their tanks, seemed more content (no longer pacing the same few inches, or never moving), able to hunt their prey over longer distances (and is a show from active mantid hunters), were typically more prolific breeders (easier to mate, more and bigger ooths, etc), and picky females had much more areas to lay their ooths.

If space is a premium, keep males in smaller tanks and females in larger ones for the reasons listed. Also one trick that helps keep size down is to have a large tank that is normally stored away, but used for breeding and/or laying ooths.

 
@CosbyArt Thanks for clearing up some points! I will give them as large of a habitat as possible, I was just thinking that I needed to go out and buy larger exo terras lol Happy I don't! I've already noticed that Femme (my giant Malaysian shied) has been much more active since I moved her to the 8x8x12. She literally chases her prey! I'm pretty sure she's at subadult now, but she has more than enough room in the current terrarium. She just recently had her molt so I'll move her to her larger permanent 12x12x18 terrarium before her adult molt to ensure she has plenty of extra room  :)

I had some kind of weird luck and all 5 of my mantids are females lol

 
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@CosbyArt Thanks for clearing up some points! I will give them as large of a habitat as possible, I was just thinking that I needed to go out and buy larger exo terras lol Happy I don't! I've already noticed that Femme (my giant Malaysian shied) has been much more active since I moved her to the 8x8x12. She literally chases her prey! I'm pretty sure she's at subadult now, but she has more than enough room in the current terrarium. She just recently had her molt so I'll move her to her larger permanent 12x12x18 terrarium before her adult molt to ensure she has plenty of extra room  :)

I had some kind of weird luck and all 5 of my mantids are females lol
Your welcome, glad it helped. Just buy a size that fits your budget and requirements and your set. ;) Nice, indeed the larger room gives a nice show at feeding time, and some mantids enjoy that more than anything.

Strangely enough ending up with all mantids being the same gender is normal. I've had that myself more times than not.

 
Your welcome, glad it helped. Just buy a size that fits your budget and requirements and your set. ;) Nice, indeed the larger room gives a nice show at feeding time, and some mantids enjoy that more than anything.

Strangely enough ending up with all mantids being the same gender is normal. I've had that myself more times than not.
Possibly one or two exo's wouldn;t  be bad but if you would like 4 it get's xpencive . my local supplier is $68.50 for the 20 x 20 x 30 . do you have a supplier for less   . S

 
Possibly one or two exo's wouldn;t  be bad but if you would like 4 it get's xpencive . my local supplier is $68.50 for the 20 x 20 x 30 . do you have a supplier for less   . S
I don't personally have a supplier for them, but a quick search online found them from $34.39 and up for a Exo Terra 20 x 20 x 30cm (8" x 8" x 12"). Likely though shipping to you will be the problem in costs. If you want to see the better online deals, here are the direct links to PetCo, 4Fishies, and ArcataPets.

For me I would buy 10 gallon fish tanks during the $1 per gallon sale they have at PetCo and PetSmart regularly, and modify them as I did in my post here (3+ tanks for the price of one not counting the shipping)...




 
I actually have 7 Exo Terras lol... Two 8x8x8s which I'm housing my budwing and soon my jeweled flower... Three 8x8x12s which I'm currently housing my Malaysian Shield, African Blue Flash, and Giant African... and two 12x12x18s which are currently empty. I'll be moving my Shield mantis to one of them soon. So I'll have an 8x8x12 and a 12x12x16 available for a couple new ones. I just didn't want to buy MORE because 1) they are expensive and 2) I didn't want to go beyond one shelf. lol

@CosbyArt Those are awesome! I wish I knew about the $1 per gallon sale thing before I went on an exo terra shopping spree :/

 
I actually have 7 Exo Terras lol... Two 8x8x8s which I'm housing my budwing and soon my jeweled flower... Three 8x8x12s which I'm currently housing my Malaysian Shield, African Blue Flash, and Giant African... and two 12x12x18s which are currently empty. I'll be moving my Shield mantis to one of them soon. So I'll have an 8x8x12 and a 12x12x16 available for a couple new ones. I just didn't want to buy MORE because 1) they are expensive and 2) I didn't want to go beyond one shelf. lol

@CosbyArt Those are awesome! I wish I knew about the $1 per gallon sale thing before I went on an exo terra shopping spree :/
Still trying to keep to the one shelf, at least you are persistent. :)

Thanks, well with the Exo Terra's they are nearly ready to go and don't require a lot of DIY to convert if any. Plus the Exo's also look more sleek and clean. The $1 per gallon sales are great, but can be hard to catch. Some stores don't advertise it besides their ad (which is currently $1 per gallon - what are the odds), and I guess in some cities don't do it all.

 
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My set up is like most out there , limited in space therefore I am trying to keep some conformity in houses .  Tenoderas & Religiosa require individual apts. and exo's take up some room .  Thomas , I do like to looks of your setup ......  S

 
When it comes to raising mantids that is just it , they consume plenty of room and I don't want to raise too many feeders .  Drosophila and Darkling Beetles /mealworms need limited space ,  just leaving the crickets and flying feeders to the people who like / want to breed them. I will wait on the exo terra's till more room is available ........  S

Serle's Mantid Ranch.JPG

 
My set up is like most out there , limited in space therefore I am trying to keep some conformity in houses .  Tenoderas & Religiosa require individual apts. and exo's take up some room .  Thomas , I do like to looks of your setup ......  S
Thanks, it is just what seems more convenient and works for my needs. Empty breeding and communal tanks on the top shelf, followed by incubating ooths, then pets based on habitat size (and feeders needed), with storage and empty containers nearer the bottom.

I'll have to take some photos to show off what my bug room/area is now when I get it better setup. At the moment it is largely a mess from moving it all still and very few pets.

Your setup looks inviting, and easy to get them out for handling. :) I see you have a few skeletal knickknacks, I do as well (a tiny bull skull and human skull that I can see at the moment).

 
Not too morbid just keeping in touch with the other side .... It is always interesting to see other mantid enthusiasts set-ups ....  S

 
Not too morbid just keeping in touch with the other side .... It is always interesting to see other mantid enthusiasts set-ups ....  S
Nah I didn't think that at all, if anything it is a common item by various keepers (including pirate inspired fish tank accessories, skulls for tarantula burrows, etc) including me. Personally for something to be morbid it would have to be way out there - if you have seen my previous posts on my jobs and my original university major and related work you'd know why. ;)

Indeed there is always something that can be gleamed by viewing setups that can be emulated or improved on with personal setups. I know when I saw the Bugatorium thread by Rebecca (hibiscusmile) I was inspired. Sadly though it seems the majority of the photos in that thread are victim to the PhotoBucket change/blocking.

Speaking of setups I see in yours a digital red display (in the middle just right of center). Is that a thermostat relay, light timer, thermometer, hygrometer, or ? I'm curious to what gadgets you use. :)

 
I have a couple of skulls for the mantid's enclosures, that I haven't put in yet. I just bought a set of tiny bones the other day as well lol. Thing is that I also have a few  things like that as part of my normal household decor   :p

 
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