Honestly, People!

[GreenOasis]

I have noticed a lot of drama going on in the "classifieds" ads and I really don't understand.

It seems that every time Frey makes a posting, people ask her simple, straightforward questions about the mantis/ooth, she calls them "silly" and becomes seemingly rude and then Phil often jumps in and rips people "new ones".

Having been referred to in one of these threads here recently, I have decided that, rather than vent in the classified ad, which, as Phil so kindly pointed out, is not the proper place, I would make my statements here. Please understand that I do not hate Frey or Phil or anyone else on this forum...rather, I love all you guys! :wub: I just want to understand why, as a community of like-minded individuals, we are being this way to each other?

First of all, Frey,

People here are simply asking honest questions, not intended to be hostile in the slightest. I, myself, made a simple comment that the Mega Mantis LOOKED small in the picture. Maybe I have seen pics in which they were *intentionally* positioned to look HUGE...I DON'T KNOW! Others jumped in to ask if you could place an object in with her to take a pic & post it. Really, I didn't intend to start a fight there, and I believe that it was a simple request which you could have easily responded with, "I'm sorry, I don't have time for that, but she is ___ long." That would have been good enough for a busy business woman, I think! Instead, your automatic response is saying someone is "stupid" or "silly" and just generally coming off as being hostile. *We* don't undertand if you are really like this and think that way of others, or if there are subtle innuendos that are lost in translation and you don't MEAN to sound rude. Again, Frey, I LIKE you, and I don't want to see this blow up into a big argument. I am just trying to point out how this might be a self-perpetuating cycle.

Now, Phil,

Everyone knows that you and Frey are close friends & you've always got her back. What I don't get is why you feel that you constantly have to be her "knight in shining armor" and jump in every time you feel like someone might be attacking her? Do you think she is not capable of defending herself against the onslaught of us "evil Americans" by herself? Plenty of folks have said time & again that they applaud Frey for being able to do what she does, communicating in a second (or perhaps more!) language & doing business in some rare species, overseas no less. The few people who DO attack her ("large hands"...really? What are we...10 yr olds? :huh: ) are quickly shot down by many other members on the forum, often before you even interject with your wordplay. Or, if I were her, I would just ignore the "trolls" anyway. I suppose, being "old school", you feel like it is your duty to defend the "damsel in distress" yourself, but often, you come off as just being creepy. (Sorry!) A simple change might be just to keep it short & sweet? "Frey is a woman, I have spoked with her myself" or something to that effect. But to jump in and yourself start throwing out accusations? Hmm... <_< I, myself, can easily see how one might mistype a latin name, having done it myself quite a few times!

Everyone Else,

I know it's probably none of my business, and in fact, this might be seen as inflammatory all over again. I don't mean it to be. Actually, I had intended this to be a formal apology to Frey (and/or Phil) for starting *something* on the classified thread that I did not mean to!

Really guys...can't we all just "get along"? :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:

 

[patrickfraser]

I just started here, so I can't say much. I did jump in with a "silly" question, just because I thought it was a simple question that should have received a simple answer. Yes or no. There is no reason to berate someone wanting to see a picture of what they might possibly want to buy, Well that's my two cents on the matter.

 

[more_rayne]

People need to learn to chill.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Thank you for raising this issue on an appropriate forum, Carey. I cannot speak for Frey, of course, but she is indeed a friend and yes, I have to come to the aid of a friend whom I feel is being abused or done less than well by, though I suspect that the last thing that she needs is a knight in any kind of armor. I must confess that some while back, I and another member used to come to the aid of another young female friend, of Russian parentage, Superfreak the Great, who used to get in all sorts of scrapes. She was just plain nasty (much less so now; I worry about her), and once used a phrase to a teenage countrywoman so egregiously crude and insulting that I was amazed that it was not deleted. I can only conclude that our vigilant administrators did not understand it. There, my goal was to step in before things escalated further and to redirect any flak to myself. I am so old and confused at this stage that if anyone insults me, I often miss the point and am more likely to be amused than offended.

Frey has a unique history on this forum. When she started, she was accused by a number of Polish members, who were very vocal at the time but are now gone, of being being a notorious mantis swindler named Octobre Mav. (October May). A few of us have a pretty good idea of who this person actually is, and he is certainly not a young female college student who has to hold a part time job to support herself. When she sold me an ooth. A Polish member said confidently that it would not hatch. When it hatched, he told me confidently that it was of a different species. He was wrong on both counts, but never apologized and was never asked to by the administrators. On another occasion two new members praised her product and service and another Polish member, himself a competing dealer, suggested that perhaps these members were "planted" by Frey. It was also argued that she was not a woman but a man and that a photo showing her holding a package had "large hands" like a man. None of these posts was censured or deleted. The practice of referring to her as "he/she as used by Masaman is a direct follow on of that canard, and since he attacked her, in his unique, oblique way, for not divulging the name of her trading sources, and I can understand Frey's not being very fond of the poor lad and being less than polite in her reply.

In more recent times, she offered for sale, like other members here including one of the Administrators, WC Idolomantis ooths. Now, everyone knows that buying one of these is like buying a lottery ticket and many, I imagine most, who were bold or rash enough to buy one got the expected result, but I think that Brian's poll of everyone who had bought one was odd and unkind, particularly since he had attempted, though with less skill than Frey, to import WC ooths of this species himself. It was also Brian who printed in bold caps that a phasmid that Frey advertised was ILLEGAL in the US something he has never done when other vendors have offered foreign phasmids for sale (we have a member in Malaysia who regularly offers eggs), and when she replied, he called her a "Stupid A$" It was he, also, who claimed that according to "a friend" her specimen was only about half size, again, quite wrongly. And unkindness can also be attributed to the member who made fun of her English in a post about flies, hardly a courtesy to a non-English speaker.

And of course, some of the statements are simply dumb rather than malicious, like suggesting that she should pose her mantis with a Euro (a 2Euro coin is, by odd chance, is almost exactly an inch in diameter [1.01"], but G_d knows the size of a one Euro coin, so how could that help, even if she had one, and the suggestion by a poster that Frey couldn't spell because he couldn't find the names on photobucket, while possibly true, seemed unkind rather than helpful, especially since his knowledge of the more exotic Mantodea nomenclature appears to be far from perfect.

So there you have it, dear. Should members avoid chat on Frey's "for sale" threads? Should administrators monitor more closely to ensure that their own regulations are adhered to? Should members treat her with the same courtesy that they show to others? Has past rough usage on this forum made her a little oversensitive? Should I be less ready to defend her position? Personally, I only know the answer to the last one, for sure.

 

[PragmaticHominid]

Phil - I wonder why you think you're helping Frey, by repeating over and over again all the cruel and untrue things that have been said about her in the past? I suppose Frey can speak for herself, but if it were me I wouldn't be very happy if one of my friends felt it necessary to repeatedly bring up in public something insulting someone else had said to me. Whoever said that about her hands was vile, but I don't think it's very noble of you to tell the story to newer members either. Seems like you're more interested in repeating ugly gossip than in helping anyone.

I also wonder why you feel it necessary to misrepresent what I said in Frey's sales threads? Until and unless the mods trim the posts, my original comments are still there, so the way you're twisting things around isn't apt to make you look good to anyone who cares to go look for themselves.

1.) If you're still ignorant about this after I posted a link to a photo of a Euro next to an American coin, I'll tell you - a Euro coin is almost exactly the size of an American nickel. There's no lack of photos on the internet that can show you the comparable sizes of coins from different nations. This is not privilege information that only God is privy to. I suggest you use google. I've already acknowledged that I might have done better to ask her to use a pencil or a ruler, but it seems that you have no interest in acknowledging my clarification.

2.) On the subject of google: Of course, it is google that I used to search for photos of the species in question, not photobucket. Of course, you already knew this, because I stated it very clearly in the original post, but I suppose by saying I used photobucket you hope to make me sound stupider.

3.) And, once again, the only place where anyone suggested that Frey couldn't spell is inside your own head. I never said that, I never even thought it, and I think it's gross and dishonest that you keep claiming that I did so.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Ah, P.H.! I obviously caused you more anguish than I ever intended. So far as I know, I don't think that I accused anyone of anything stronger than being "unkind" or "foolish" but I think that you must strongly wish to be a kindly and righteous man, and I would not wittingly tarnish your self image, especially over a subject that caused at least two members, much happy laughter. The list of unkindnesses leveled at Frey were given simply to explain why I feel the need to defend her position, and I am in a good position to know that in most cases, such posts simply make her laugh. She depends in part on her mantis sales, and comments about her misspelling (and you appear to imply that she misspelled the names of every species that she mentioned) and requests for her to include a coin, foreign to both the US and Poland do nothing to promote that and are posted contrary to forum rules, as I am sure you now know.

So please believe me when I say that, whatever your opinion of me ( ), I am sure that you are an absolutely fine fellow and that I would never (ref #2) intentionally try to make you sound stupider than you are.

 

[yeatzee]

good god, more drama? I swear this place has more going on than every other forum I am a part of on the internet combined (and im part of a lot!). Back from when I first joined however many years ago to now. Long time no post by the way

Personally, I think the "demands" (if you want to call them that) of frey do not deserve the responses back but thats just me. Clearly some people disagree..... oh well

Phil, whatever happened to superfreak? She went from the biggest wannabe cyber bully I have ever seen to just disappearing off the forum. Cant say I miss her (as well as a few people which appear to have left as well).

 

[PhilinYuma]

Hey Tanner! Always good to hear from you! I remember that Superfreak zapped the heck out of you when you had just returned (again!) after an absence from the forum. She was totally unfair, of course, but what style! And English is her third language! So far as I can tell, she and I have the same mental spectrum disorder, which you either get out of in yr early twenties or not. It always leaves a mark, but she seems to have turned the corner and is doing honors in mantis studies in Sydney.

And it's the style that counts, son, for people like us. You are glad to see her gone; she, with style, wouldn't remember your name.

 

[PragmaticHominid]

Yes, that's very good, Phil. By all means continue to resort to insults and snark over this matter, which you have chosen for no logical reason to blow entirely out of proportion. This will certainly make you look like a mature person.

If you were actually concerned about Frey's sales, by the way, you wouldn't continue to mention these cases in which she was accused (however unjustly) of dishonest dealings. I don't know where you come from, but the way I was raised (with the help of my Polish grandmother, by the way) friends don't repeat malicious lies about their friends to strangers. These bizarre little fits of tempter that you've been having can't be helpful to anyone.

By the way, it's not especially relevant to anything, but I'm a woman.

And I'm finished discussing this with you. Have a lovely life.

 

[DannyN]

I dont post often but I personally think that posting on classified threads should be disabled, except by the poster. It is this way on a few other forums that Im on and it seems to make things a lot peaceful, any business is done over PM.

 

[yeatzee]

Hey Tanner! Always good to hear from you! I remember that Superfreak zapped the heck out of you when you had just returned (again!) after an absence from the forum. She was totally unfair, of course, but what style! And English is her third language! So far as I can tell, she and I have the same mental spectrum disorder, which you either get out of in yr early twenties or not. It always leaves a mark, but she seems to have turned the corner and is doing honors in mantis studies in Sydney.

And it's the style that counts, son, for people like us. You are glad to see her gone; she, with style, wouldn't remember your name.

If you consider "zapped" with style trying to be a bully to a what, 13 year old kid (now 17 mind you) who was what 5 years younger than her , throwing out as many desperate personal attacks as possible than yes I was "zapped."

You've always had a funny way insulting people phil.....

As you can probably guess with your infinite wisdom, I couldn't care less that's just the kind of person I am, and in such an eloquent fashion you stated she is not.

 

[PhilinYuma]

I dont post often but I personally think that posting on classified threads should be disabled, except by the poster. It is this way on a few other forums that Im on and it seems to make things a lot peaceful, any business is done over PM.

This

 

[GreenOasis]

By the way, it's not especially relevant to anything, but I'm a woman.

*Snort* As my teenage daughter would say..."Epic Face Palm!"

 

[sporeworld]

As a person who has had several posts on the topic deleted, I'm glad this thread is here, and that we can talk openly. (um, we CAN, right...?) Kudos, Green Oasis for having the courage to post it.

Personally, I'm VERY interested in knowing what kind of success people have had with WC Oooths - from any breeder. And I confess, I did NOT know "WC" meant "Wild Caught" when I made my first purchase. Like many, I'm just enjoying the hobby, and I'm limited to the amount of time I allow myself to do research. I trust what I read HERE more than what I read on the general web, anyway.

But that's the problem. If the rules prohibit such a direct question as "Has anyone had a successful hatch", forcing the discussion to other thread, how are inexperienced forum members expeceted to acces that valuable information...? I spent 12 hours research JUST Idolomantis breeding... We don't REALLY expect members to read through every thread with "frey" in it...? It's 3 pages of content already!

I suppose everyone who has had a purchase with the buyer COULD (or should?) simply post to the Breeder Feedback page "1 Idolo ooth, 50 nymphs", or "1 Idolo ooth, no hatch in 9 months" and we'd at least have something, right? Maybe?

I think dissapointed people (me) don't post this type of feedback, because, as it's been made clear to me NOW, it's nearly irrational to think a WC ooth will hatch.

So, as I understand the rules, if I posted "4 ooths, zero hatch. But our forum has clearly agreed that I've got less than a 5% chance of a WC ooth hatching", my post would be deleted because I've introduced a discussion, or whatever. Very frustrating.

Can we, in a thread like this, ask respected members (obviously open to debate) what THEIR hatch rate has been...? Is that within the rules...? Just facts...?

 

[Rick]

Bottom line is the classifieds are not for discussion. It is in the rules. I have not made much attempt at enforcing it lately because it seems I am the only one who was trying there for awhile. Don't be surprised if a post you made in there gets deleted.

 

[sporeworld]

I understnd the Breeder Feedback part, but even in the Classified? People are blocked from asking (arguably) legitimate questions or from making comments about the species or ask for pics? Can they post a link to their discussion thread?

Or do you just mean they can't post personal attacks (and that sort of thing) in the Classifieds?

I'm sure it isn't fun being the moderator, or deleteing people's posts (or getting their hate mail). You have my sympathies. However, I feel like the buyer is being disarmed here, and potential scammers are getting getting an easy (or easier) ride. As it is, it's a predator's market, and I'm not sure who the rules are really protecting.

Is there any kind of satisfaction rating we can add to a breeder? Or, would it be fair to add to my iterests: "Beloved Breeders: Yen, Hibiscussmile, KitKat". There's no NEGATIVE to that, right.

I based my trust on the Breeder Feedback page, only to suspect much later that this was quite an edited version of reality.

Honestly, all this is coming from a CONSTRUCTIVE point of view. I really love the hobby, and most of this forum. And I want to be like Phil and be someone's Knight in shining armor. I just want to be a little clearer on who really is the damsel in distress.

 

[hibiscusmile]

oH! it's me! it's me! :lol:

 

[geckoboy3]

oH! it's me! it's me! :lol:

 

[yen_saw]

If this is about the size of mega mantis (Plistospilota guineensis). It is about 12 cm based on the photos I have seen. Please do not speculate the size of this species exceeding 6 inches. 12 cm is still a very large specimen, I hope this 'help' Frey clarify things up.