Idolo Ooth from Villosa

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Kruszakus, for the most part I agree with what you're saying. People need to protect themselves and stay away from people with a poor reputation. But however, I know Peter is a very kind, and fair person. I know some people will see this as a weakness and will take advantage of it. Peter gave this member a chance to redeem himself, in this case he was very wrong. If a mistake was made, and I'm not saying one was, I don't feel it was Peter's. All of this seller's info and feedback is out there for buyers to read. Peter should not ever let this person on the forum again going forward. This person should make things right, they won't but should. Again, I totally understand what you're saying.

Kruszakus said:
I know I'm not gonna get any love for saying this, but I don't care.If Villosa indeed scammed all those people, then I wonder who is to blame - the gullible users of this community, or the lenient mods. I got warned not to do deals with that user over a year ago, from several members, and I listened. Despite all those signs people still bought from this user, and the account was still active - and now lookey here, what a nice mess we got.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think it's time to start thinking a bit more before making a purchase, or allowing someone to "make amends", because it's obviously not working.

If I were you, I'd stick to buying from people that are trustworthy, not those who appeal to my stinginess. And as for mods - rather than giving warning points and banning for harmless innuendos, try to be a bit more decisive about alleged scammers, cuz from what I've seen, they don't take you too seriously.
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Why don't you buy an ooth from one of the German breeders or one from here in the UK or Europe? You may have to pay a little more for it but chances are you wont be getting a piece of foam, also this will come from captive bread mantis stock that are more likely to survive than wild caught mantis. If a few of you clubbed together and just bought one or two ooths then divided the resulting hatch between you and established your own breeding stock would this not be a better option? I know we have to initially start with a wild collected ooth to get a species in culture and i have no problem with an individual taking the odd ooth that they find on holiday or getting a friend to send you one, but when money becomes a factor in it and someone realizes there is big money to be made things like this happen or even worse the wild ooths will be collected to extinction. I am not having a go at any individual here this is just my opinion.

 
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I am sure this would be a good idea to try to establish a culture or two in the U.S and try to do a respectable business with them but you have to first put the bad dealers and sellers out of work first or at least take away their cliental and try to sell them within ones means and not some insane price that it drives away some people who want the species but cant afford to pay alot for them!

 
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arkblue doesn't deserve it but he should of kept this fake ooth thing to himself or at least not make a big big issue out of it that it is stirring up all kinds of things as it is doing and kept to private emails or something at least so this dont spiral out of control!

 
Idolomantis and Gongylus will never be cheap, as they are high energy species, require lots of space and consume plenty of food. Like it or not, but not every species is meant to be for everyone, particularly not for you! I hope you got your answers now.
 
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agent A said:
I don't get why idolomantids are so expensive.
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Because it's arguably the most impressive species in culture? Besides, I think that all hard to keep species should be expensive to repell amateurs who don't know anything else apart from collecting WC mantids in their gardens and occasionally rearing Tenodera or Hierodula type thing.

 
Kruszakus said:
Because it's arguably the most impressive species in culture?
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That's a bad reason for them being so expensive <_< the cost of keeping them and the rest of what you said is understandable though.

 
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bassist said:
That's a bad reason for them being so expensive <_< the cost of keeping them and the rest of what you said is understandable though.
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That ain't a bad reason - they are huge, beautiful, and their threat display is unparalleled among mantids - they are the Ferrari of the mantis world, they should not be sold at the same prices as Sphodromantis. If Ferrari was as cheap as Wolksvagen Beetle, then it would lose all it's luster - don't you agree?

 
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On the one hand, the reason that only very few people actually breed this species may also influence the price to a certain extent; it's like everywhere.

It should be emphasized, though, that it demands high financial costs on the side of the breeder, and you have to get these costs back.

Nowadays people think that they have the right to get everything just because you see it on the net. You have to make some experiences before trying to breed such species. Most forget that Idolomantis is still much more available than it should be! This is only due to imported ooths, as there are not many breeders, by which I mean breeding over years and offering them regularly. So, if only a few of the experienced breeders are capable or willing (remember the costs and space requirements?) to breed it, why do certain people think they are fit enough for such a challenge just because they raised a Chinese? And, worse, undermining breeding efforts of others by importing cheap ooths?

So, comforting someone like ArkBlue because he got fake ooths? No way. Imagine he had got good ones... But I feel sorry for Becky, this is the second time in a few weeks she got scammed.

 
^ i agree.

It's like thinking you can drive a car after you learned to bike

But okay something else, this doesn't have anything to do with the scams but, i would, no matter what sort of species it was, buy an ooth for 100$

Sure they're pretty but yet again, one ooth for that price is a bit odd.

 
That's why I don't sell ooths of this species: regardless what price you make, one of the parties is always the loser.

 
I'm clearing up this thread - please keep arguments to yourselves people, no matter how irritating you may find other members.

Krus, RE the fact that the mods could be to blame for this mishap, I think is probably a fairly foolish thing to say. (Regardless, I still have love you.)

Back to the topic - a false ooth? That is so laugable. Looks to me like it's some kind of expanding foam.

 
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Well I read villosa's feedback, there was plenty of negative comments, but some that were giving him the benefit of the doubt after what he had wrote.

I was one who was not fully satisfied with his replies but being someone who will always give someone the benefit of the doubt I ordered a couple of ooths from him.

Luckily, I told him I would only pay half up front, just in case my spider sense was not up to scratch.

I can see from this thread and the images from Arkblue I was right to do so.

I think it's a terrible shame that people will stoop this low to rip people off.

It makes it even more difficult to trust people now. Where will it end? We have to trust someone at some point.

Whenever someone new starts up wanting to sell anything - it will be very hard for anyone to trust them without any feedback. The only way I guess will be for them to ship the goods out and receive payment on receipt of goods.

Oh well....

 
The only way I guess will be for them to ship the goods out and receive payment on receipt of goods and only if those goods are real and not fabricated or manufactured !

 
agent A said:
who would be shallow enough to send someone a fake ooth, arkblue doesn't deserve that and neither does anyone else.
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[SIZE=14pt]Thanks little dude B) [/SIZE]

massaman said:
arkblue doesn't deserve it but he should of kept this fake ooth thing to himself or at least not make a big big issue out of it that it is stirring up all kinds of things as it is doing and kept to private emails or something at least so this dont spiral out of control!
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[SIZE=14pt]If I wouldn't of made this post then no one eles would know of the fake Ooths that are out there I know you didnt buy 1 and I hope you never do, but if I help one of our members and friends they it was worth the stuff going on in this post.[/SIZE]

By the way rice would take up little to much time to make, but with this kind of Ooth (the foamy kind) I would get some a.b.c. gum a stick and the foam ;1st start with the stick stuck into a foam block with some paper on it, then you could spray some foam and as it is wet and poping up put in the gum then spray a little more foam , them wait after it is dry you take a tool to shape it into your fake ooth and clean it up. Now why I am saying this is if we think of ways someone could make a fake Ooth then we can think of ways to check them, like Christian said Idolo's Ooth have a vaining and vints on them, also the foam that mantids make is differnt then Man made foams, and the desk lamp test, then the kicker the lighter test takeing a little bit of the foam from the Ooth and burning it to see if its a plastic smell when burned. Anything eles can you all can think of ways to find out if your Ooth is fake?

 
Ian, I stand by what I said - I still think that mods should put a heat on scammers, rather than trying to come off as bozos by banning users for innocent jokes.

 
I'm sorry, but when two or more parties are involved, one cannot simply point the finger and call someone a scammer. A bad experience is not enough to ban someone, and there are always two sides to a story.

What's more, nothing stops such scammers either signing up a new account, contacting members directly, or advertising elsewhere. I think a bit of common sense and thought from buyers would help. New member, no feedback, cheap prices, good deals, seem to good to be true? Then it probably is. Of course, I'm not saying this is anyones fault. Of course I feel for those who have lost money, as a situation like this frankly could not be avoided. (Imo).

Villosa for example has shown no signs of being a "scammer" before this.

It's very easy for you to say, "put heat on scammers, and ban users for innocent jokes". Firstly, there is a difference between keeping consistancy on a family based hobbyists forum, and "banning users for innocent jokes". If you want to be posting on a forum littered with swearing, inappropriate jokes and spam, then Digital Gangster forums have a place you ;) Secondly, out right suspending someone and labelling them as a scammer, is a fairly big deal. Not an idea that should be tossed around at the next failing reputation of a seller.

Will Villosa be suspended? Of course he will. It's clear to see that this guy is no good. Regardless, we will still let him have his say on the situation.

Do sellers need to be more closely auited? Quite possibly, and it's something that no doubt we'll be discussing.

But please do not think that we sit back and watch over such situations, without taking any action. Because that's simply not true.

 

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