L6 dying from molt skin stuck on butt-HELP!!!

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My Annie- L5 female Iris oratoria molted 3 days ago and her skin was  stuck on her butt. I have never seen any mantid survive so long with this scenario.  I used warm water to take off what I could. I used a magnifying glass to see that where she eliminates (poops), there is skin plugging her hole. Of course she won't eat. I gave her a very small amount of honey water.  She is trying so hard to eliminate and get that skin out of her butt. I have tried for hours to dissolve it with warm water and paper. I used cotton, toothpicks and tweezers with no luck.

Since she will die, I am willing to try anything that is humane to save her.

Is there any other substance that will dissolve the molt skin?

I am thinking of trying a needle but I don't want to hurt her.

Any ideas? I love Annie so much

 

[Nanodot]

Can you post a picture?  

 

[CosbyArt]

@[email protected] A toothpick would likely be the best option to make a hole safely in the dried exuvia skin. A needle while it could do it easier, it can just as easily pierce her anus/abdomen/etc afterwards too, making it more dangerous. Besides that the tip of the needle would only make a very tiny hole that may not help.

If you are able to pull any of the exuvia skin away you could then cut it with a razor/scalpel as well. You could try using a small piece of fine sandpaper, nail file, emery board to remove the exuvia slowly (and hopefully keep damage to a minimum). The thinned exuvia may itself be enough for it to easily tear (or finished being removed by her) during a bowel movement/defecating.

As you said she is trying to remove the exuvia herself as well, so hopefully the exuvia has been thinned/damaged/punctured enough that she can safely finish the job. If she hasn't made it through yet, I'd say try anything you can again while she has enough strength to recover.

 

[[email protected]]

Thank you Thomas. Unfortunately, with the warm water and tooth pick,  I got ALL the skin off leaving just the plugged hole with nothing to grab on to with the tweezers. So now rather than relying on my almost non- existent minor surgery skills, I need to focus on a substance that will dissolve the skin still stuck in her hole.

Time is crucial!!

If I cannot fix her soon she will die.

Yes I can try a needle, but I will not hurt her because I LOVE her sooo much. 

I need HELP!

Thank you!

 

[CosbyArt]

Thank you Thomas. Unfortunately, with the warm water and tooth pick,  I got ALL the skin off leaving just the plugged hole with nothing to grab on to with the tweezers. So now rather than relying on my almost non- existent minor surgery skills, I need to focus on a substance that will dissolve the skin still stuck in her hole.

Time is crucial!!

If I cannot fix her soon she will die.

Yes I can try a needle, but I will not hurt her because I LOVE her sooo much. 

I need HELP!

Thank you!

The more exotic solvent liquids that could dissolve the exuvia plug inside would hurt her as well, and impossible to get except from a chemical supplier with proper ID. The more common ones that are available everywhere would be water, rubbing alcohol (Isopropyl alcohol), vinegar (5–20% acetic acid) - to even more toxic ones such as nail polish removers (acetone, methyl acetate) or paint thinners (toluene, turpentine).

Honestly I do not know if any of them could be safely used (besides water), even if highly diluted with water, that would help save her.

If you feel she will not remove the plug in time, the only possibly safe option is to remove the plug with a tip of a needle, angled needle tweezers, or such under magnification. You could try squeezing around the anus as well to see if that would loosen or dislodge the plug - like popping a pimple/zit/blackhead, but is not without possible damage too.

Sadly dried exuvia is bad enough in most cases, but if internally as a plug or skin in their openings (such as anus or mouth) it is even more troubling. Trying to pull it out, or squeezing around it, are the only options that may work without fatally harming her. Sorry I have no further help, or a definite solution for you.

 

[[email protected]]

Wow. Thank you Thomas. Someone at the feeder store suggested to me to give her a little cat food sauce. Like a dummy I gave it to her and she was paralyzed immediately. I put her on a warm heating pad to just make her comfortable and said my good byes. This morning she is walking around again! She is so weak and her eyes are turning dark. I still do not think there is anything I can do but I just wanted to mention that cat food is a real bad idea. I can't believe how such a tiny amount paralyzed her. I can't hurt her anymore, but will need to do a dissection and try your suggestions after she goes to Mantis heaven.

 

[TheShadyMantid]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, seriously nothing worse than not being able to help your pet.  I've never heard of cat food paralyzing a mantis, is there some info that led you to this conclusion? 

Have you been continuing to try to apply liquid to dissolve?  I think that at this point, the dissolving may not be enough, as even if it softens things up there will probably need to be some sort of intervention to actually get the plug to come out.  The problem is how tedious it is trying to work with these guys.  Doing something similar with many tiny nymphs, I can say that with an adult mantis you should at least have a little more room to work.  I saw someone mention, do you have any pics of her, specifically the part that's plugged up?   If you have a steady hand and an extremely sharp tweezers, you may be able to get enough of it to pull it out.  I've even had to use a magnifying glass for similar situations.  Or as Thomas mentioned, if you can very VERY gently try to squeeze the end of her with perhaps 2 Q-Tips, or by gently pressing down if she is sitting flat, making an outward motion towards the hole.  That might free it up or at least get enough of it to stick out that you could then grab it with tweezers.

Just trying to throw out some last minute suggestions.  In my experience it's never too late to keep trying.  I've tried many last ditch efforts that ended up saving my mantids when I thought all hope was lost.  If she does succumb, you can at least take comfort in the fact that you were a great owner and clearly gave her the best of care.  Keep your head up!

When I lost my first adult mantis, I ended up just clearing out her abdomen and stuffing it with cotton.  I didn't even add any solutions to it or anything, and she actually preserved quite nicely.  No mold or smell, and her wings are still green.  She is perched on a nice piece of cork bark.

Keep us updated, we'll keep "praying" for her =)

 

[Serle]

You say that her eyes are turning dark , that usually means the end is near , sorry ........... S

 

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annie

 

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Annie's last 2 or 3 segments have necrosed. I do not see a way back now. I believed she was paralyzed from cat food only because immediately after feeding her whole body was paralyzed.  She fell and was all curled up and looked dead for hours.  Today she is running around with her behind necrotic (dead).  She wants to live so bad and it is all my fault.

So if anyone wants 3 small males let me know. I am a horrible mom.
I love Annie so much and she will die because I could not pay better attention. She was not misted for about a week before the molt. So I AM a bad mom

 

[TheShadyMantid]

Don't beat yourself up too bad.  My mantids are mostly housed in a room that stays 50 - 70% humidity, and even with regular misting they still mis molt sometimes.  Chin up =)

 

[CosbyArt]

@[email protected] I'm so sorry to see it's only progressed negatively.

The molting issue is not your fault, and the wet cat food was a attempt to help. I haven't heard of trying the cat food before, but with such dire circumstances I may have tried it too. As you know if there is a health problem there is little can be done, and is without a doubt a occurrence that happens sooner or later to us all.

A molting issue that still stands out for me was when a subadult become trapped and ripped it's face off trying to free itself.

Just know your not to blame, and even if somehow you were, you did the best you could and only tried to help. Sadly problems happen to all keepers, and at times many want to quit (me included). I wish you the best whatever you decide to do.

 

[[email protected]]

Thank you everyone for your kindness. My Annie is dead now.  She was so strong but the issue was that I could not find her food for over a week before her molt . All I had was 2 or 3 dehydrated fruit flies that she ate.  I totally forgot about misting because I was freaking out because the 2 stores I got my food from stopped selling fruit flies. I tried overnighting fruit flies from CA and I did not get the flies for 5 days.  So now I spent 67.00 on flies and I have 3 small males I cannot care for anymore. I want to quit. 

I cannot even dissect her because the cat food rotted her behind.

I guess I will let these males fly away once they become adult. I have raised hundreds of mantids and many die, but this time I cannot get over it for some reason.

Thank you to everyone once again.

 

[cwebster]

Am so very sorry for your loss of Annie.