Orchid hasn't mated, but when should she have an ooth?

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MajorManny

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So, my female orchid molted to adulthood about 14-15 weeks ago. She seems very healthy, active, and eats like she always did, but she hasn't laid an ooth. Though I haven't mated her, shouldn't she lay an infertile one at some point? Is this bad? 

 
So, my female orchid molted to adulthood about 14-15 weeks ago. She seems very healthy, active, and eats like she always did, but she hasn't laid an ooth. Though I haven't mated her, shouldn't she lay an infertile one at some point? Is this bad? 
Yes, they are supposed too. However, I had two adult females that just passed after 4 months of adulthood, never having laid a single ooth. :( Apparently they are finicky about laying sometimes, and a lot of ppl have problems with egg-bound orchid females. Here is a collection of the suggestions I received when looking for advice on how to get them to lay: 

1) Green leaves

2) Real plants (they like plants with long smooth leaves)

3)  Change their diet to flying insects, increase temp (to around 90 F) and spray more often. 

4) Do not feed more than 3 blue bottles a day, over feeding will cause them to get egg-bound. I have received advice from others that has stated the opposite as well (feed 10 blue bottles a day, and this is what i was doing originally. Later, I decreased to about 3 a day or less), so in my opinion, this one is inconclusive!

5) Move them to a new enclosure.

Best of luck! I hope you get yours to lay!

 
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Okay, so she has a pretty nice, roomy (but not too roomy) enclosure that I moved her into after she molted and I've been feeding her 1 blue bottle a day, misting once every other day, and giving her raw local honey a couple times a week. I definitely haven't been keeping her enclosure nearly that warm (about 82 in the day and 76 at night). Do you think I should slowly get it up to 90, mist thoroughly every day, and maybe feed her two BBs? 

Thank you so much for the advice!

 
Okay, so she has a pretty nice, roomy (but not too roomy) enclosure that I moved her into after she molted and I've been feeding her 1 blue bottle a day, misting once every other day, and giving her raw local honey a couple times a week. I definitely haven't been keeping her enclosure nearly that warm (about 82 in the day and 76 at night). Do you think I should slowly get it up to 90, mist thoroughly every day, and maybe feed her two BBs? 

Thank you so much for the advice!
Yeah, I would increase her food a bit, maybe 1 BB a day is not enough for her to be able to produce an ooth. My Wandering Violins (adult violin females are about the same size as adult orchid females), eat about 3 blue bottles a day, and it seems to work well for them, as they have no problems producing ooths every week!

Also, I would try increasing the temperature slowly to get it up to 90, as I got that advice from a very reputable breeder or orchids, so he definitely seems to have success with them in those conditions! I would mist her enclosure twice a day too. if you haven't even been misting once a day, I would increase tot hat first, than after a few weeks increase to 2 times a day. Keep us updated if she lays!

 
I'm on it! Thank you so much for your advice! I just gave her two BBs today and have slightly increased the temperature as well as misting. I've been afraid to overfeed her, but I'm glad to know now how much she gets. Thank you so much and I hope she makes it!

 
I'm on it! Thank you so much for your advice! I just gave her two BBs today and have slightly increased the temperature as well as misting. I've been afraid to overfeed her, but I'm glad to know now how much she gets. Thank you so much and I hope she makes it!
No problem! I hope she makes it too!

 
This is her enclosure (picture taken two weeks ago right after misting and when I was still bumping her temperature up) 

2016-08-15.jpg

Should I put a stick in there or will that lower her mobility too much? Again, I'm not sure what kind of plants or green leaves to put in there. 

4) Do not feed more than 3 blue bottles a day, over feeding will cause them to get egg-bound. I have received advice from others that has stated the opposite as well (feed 10 blue bottles a day, and this is what i was doing originally. Later, I decreased to about 3 a day or less), so in my opinion, this one is inconclusive!
I've started feeding her three BBs. I started giving her two then moved my way up. This is her a couple days ago...do you think she looks egg-bound? Or do I need a better abdomen picture? She's got a plump abdomen, but I'm just not sure...I don't see a lot of adult orchid pictures...

holla.jpg

holla2.jpg

Sorry about sounding obsessive--I know you don't have a responsibility to answer this and that you can't possibly know everything, but I'm just worried. I know she's lived a long life compared to most orchids (I got her as an L2 in the second half of October), but I know they can live longer and she seems healthy, so it'd be a shame if she died from being egg bound.  Thank you so much!

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She really doesn't look too big or anything.  That enclosure is pretty bare though. I think she would prefer more coverage, so adding a few sticks is probably a good idea (and maybe some more fake and/or real plants), she might be looking for a safe place to lay her ooth, where it would be hidden from predators. I know there are no predators in your house, but it is just instinct, and she doesn't know that! LOL. Maybe she wouldn't mind a bit bigger of an enclosure either. I kept mind in ExoTerra enclosures (18" by 18" by 24")  with a background and several real and fake plants in there. It looked like a little jungle. Bromeliads are the plants that were recommended to me, or orchids themselves. As an extra precaution, I bought my bromeliads from a reptile expo near my house to ensure no pesticides were used. I have bought the orchids that they sell in the grocery store ("Just Add Ice" orchids) many times though for my orchid mantises, and never had any pesticide issues with them. 

Good luck!

 
She really doesn't look too big or anything.  That enclosure is pretty bare though. I think she would prefer more coverage, so adding a few sticks is probably a good idea (and maybe some more fake and/or real plants), she might be looking for a safe place to lay her ooth, where it would be hidden from predators. I know there are no predators in your house, but it is just instinct, and she doesn't know that! LOL. Maybe she wouldn't mind a bit bigger of an enclosure either. I kept mind in ExoTerra enclosures (18" by 18" by 24")  with a background and several real and fake plants in there. It looked like a little jungle. Bromeliads are the plants that were recommended to me, or orchids themselves. As an extra precaution, I bought my bromeliads from a reptile expo near my house to ensure no pesticides were used. I have bought the orchids that they sell in the grocery store ("Just Add Ice" orchids) many times though for my orchid mantises, and never had any pesticide issues with them. 

Good luck!
Unfortunately she passed yesterday. I did what I could and got her some succulents with smooth leaves and a few sticks + ordered a new enclosure, but the latter didn't come in time. I think she somehow knew she wouldn't pass them and seemed to want to spend a lot of time out on my hand eating honey. I also had to keep her in a temporary container for 24 hours while any fumes from the hot glue in her main one went away. She was a good bug, she was just my second mantis (I got her about half a month after my first mantis--an L4 male ghost who died a few months ago), my first female, and my first orchid. I raised her from an L2 and I'm glad I got to see her through adulthood. Wish I could've helped her live longer, but when I left her on Saturday evening she was eating a fly and when I came back last night, she was peacefully dead on the bottom with her other flies eaten.

I did really all I knew how to do as a fairly inexperienced owner...hopefully I'll be more prepared for egg time and such with my next mantis. Thank you for your help!

 
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Unfortunately she passed yesterday. I did what I could and got her some succulents with smooth leaves and a few sticks + ordered a new enclosure, but the latter didn't come in time. I think she somehow knew she wouldn't pass them and seemed to want to spend a lot of time out on my hand eating honey. I also had to keep her in a temporary container for 24 hours while any fumes from the hot glue in her main one went away. She was a good bug, she was just my second mantis (I got her about half a month after my first mantis--an L4 male ghost who died a few months ago), my first female, and my first orchid. I raised her from an L2 and I'm glad I got to see her through adulthood. Wish I could've helped her live longer, but when I left her on Saturday evening she was eating a fly and when I came back last night, she was peacefully dead on the bottom with her other flies eaten.

I did really all I knew how to do as a fairly inexperienced owner...hopefully I'll be more prepared for egg time and such with my next mantis. Thank you for your help!
I am so sorry for you loss. I really was hoping she would lay for you, so she could pull through and live a longer life for you, but you should not feel bad, you did all you could do.  :(

 
Sorry to hear that she passed, it's a shame it didn't have a better ending. :(

If she never did lay a ooth after molting to adulthood for 15 weeks or so, she most likely succumbed to being eggbound. From my mantid logs of various species, my females on average lay their first ooth 40 days (about 6 weeks) after molting to adulthood. After their first ooth they will continue to lay another ooth typically every 1-2 weeks at most. In that regard she should have laid 5 -10 ooths in that 15 week period, of course species and individuals can vary.

According to the Orchid mantis caresheet, they reach breeding age in 3-4 weeks after molting to adults, so the above ooth information seems to apply to your species too. In which case if you have a female that has not laid her first ooth by the 8th week at most, there is a problem. Sadly about the 9th week onward there is little that could be done to help the condition as it had already started to adversely affect her health (and likely why there was few responses to this topic). It seems your girl was a real fighter to have made it to 15 weeks.

To prevent issues like this in the future the three things that can lead to the condition are the lack of laying locations (a main issue), low humidity, and temperature issues (usually too low).

Laying locations is solved by placing more plants (artificial is fine), definitely some stick perches, and even a mesh covered lid would help. For my Carolina species I cover any females habitat lids with sticks laid loosely side by side all the way across (likely too much but they enjoy it) and one from the bottom to the lid.

For humidity just get a hydrometer and ensure the humidity level is at least 60% (for nearly all species), and up to 80% for Orchids, as said in this other caresheet. Although high humidity without good cross ventilation (the top and side ventilated at least) can cause a mantis to die as well (see Captive Environment in the caresheet).

Temperature wise Orchids need 72F-90F so they do need a heat source, as the optional temperature which is 82F (28C).

Regarding hot glue it drys in 5 to 45 seconds, and quite rigid in just a few minutes. I haven't heard of fumes after it is applied/leaves the glue gun, but I guess it is possible. I tend to put pets into new containers I made within an hour of finishing without any issues in over two years. The thought of fumes from hot glue has never occurred to me as I have never experienced a odor/smell or seen any problems about it before online or in my life.

So I did some more checking and can't find many details about hot glue fumes, and none once it starts to harden. Here is one, one of the very few with any scientific data, talking about using industrial glue sticks (which are stronger adhesives) and the melt guns all day in a job setting and says, "In a nutshell, hot melt adhesives pose virtually no hazards to health when used in normal industrial practice".

Some glue sticks are also classified as non-toxic, such as Bostik hot melt glue sticks; however, of course some cheaply made glue sticks have been found to contain zinc and other trace amount additives. In which case just avoid the cheap sticks and it should be a non-issue. I did find one other pet owner (geckos) that was concerned with the odor, and they said they wipe the cooled hot glue with a paper towel dampened with white vinegar, and once that evaporates there is no lingering odor.

 
I've raised generations of orchids and never had problems having them lay Ooths for me, but I have heard that for some it is very difficult. Going by your pictures I would say your female is not nearly big enough to lay an ooth. Please her appetite and feed her as much as she wants. Orchid mantids will almost always choose a flat area to lay their Ooths. Feed her till she is nice and plump. Her abdomen should be round and stretched to where you can see her segments underneath her wings. It's best to have her like this before breeding as well. When she is ready to lay signs you should be looking for are loss of appetite but round abdomen. Constantly wandering her enclosure at night. She will rarely gold her raptor arms, At this point they will be somewhat unfolded but not really stretched out. More like she's about to walk. She may also have a glow to her like some pregnant women do lol. It's like a literal sheen they get across their abdomen. Once an orchid matures she will have little pink on her that turns to complete white, as she gets older she starts to get a little yellow peachy color to her that's when they are more prone to lay ooths IMO. Hope this helped

 
Sad to hear she passed. For your next mantis i suggest you to inform yourself a lot on their natural environment and try to recreate it. You can check my thread about my terrarium, i tried to do it as natural as i could. I do not think she died because of not having a good environment but next time it would be better for your mantis and it's also more pleasurable to see them evolve in a really natural environment.

 

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