Pre-sub to Sub-adult Idolomantises

[Colorcham427]

So I had 8 pre-sub adults. All have recently molted to sub adult, finally! I was told the wait for final stage is even longer! :angry:

I had 4 out of 8 molt on the side of the screen cage, where their legs got crippled and eventually fell off. This is NOT making me happy! :angry:

I am thinking about putting very thin plastic around the sides of the screen cage so they cannot get on the sides, just in case they begin to molt on the sides...

They have plenty of real twigs in their screen cage, plus the screen is perfect for them to grip. I witnessed one molt to sub-adult the other night on the ceiling of the screened cage and he/she came out beautifully.

I really do have a strong feeling that they get a little uncomfortable molting from the side angel just because of their weight and size, not to mention their odd shapes.

Have any of you weighed an Idolo? Pre-sub? Sub-adult? Adult?

As of now I have 2 beautiful Sub-adult males and females, and one sub-adult female that is only missing one back foot.

The other three are missing both of their back feet. I put those ones in their own little net cage.

I also placed a crumbled up layer of paper towels on the bottom of the screen cage just because if they fall it isn't such a hard fall...

Please let me know your experience, any advice is greatly appreciated. This is that one species that makes me bananas, I really want some perfectly formed adults!!!

 

[Colorcham427]

gee... thanks to all those people who keep Idolos!!!

 

[LauraMG]

:lol: They've been a touchy subject recently! I think there's only a few people who have been successful thus far though.

 

[guapoalto049]

Mine just molted to L3, I should pre-order Rogaine for when my hair starts coming out around L7

 

[Colorcham427]

Mine just molted to L3, I should pre-order Rogaine for when my hair starts coming out around L7

LOL! I am thinking this species is just a very hardy species UNTIL it hits a certain weight. Once the mantid itself is bigger, it'll weigh a lot more and the molting becomes more of an obstacle for it.

 

[Schloaty]

I just got mine, and the first just made L3.

However, I think you're right about the weight thing.

For me, I use screen tops on my cages, and I never had a problem with any moltings until the mantids got heavier.

For example, I had five ghosts molt to adult easily (they're slender)...

However, both females fell...

So now, when my mantids get larger, I will use a glass top (along with plastic sides) so they have no choice besides using the sticks/ fake plants I have in their cages.

 

[Colorcham427]

I just got mine, and the first just made L3.

However, I think you're right about the weight thing.

For me, I use screen tops on my cages, and I never had a problem with any moltings until the mantids got heavier.

For example, I had five ghosts molt to adult easily (they're slender)...

However, both females fell...

So now, when my mantids get larger, I will use a glass top (along with plastic sides) so they have no choice besides using the sticks/ fake plants I have in their cages.

Sounds good, but I was thinking leaving the screen top and just have some twigs coming across from the sides...

Plastic on the sides is my first choice. Getting them to adjust to just use the twigs and ceiling. Having my Idolos never relying on the sides is my goal. Side molting is a disaster with larger Idolos from my experience with them.

These guys do get really big lol. Love it!!!

I have one sub-adult now that is so close to molting, her wing stubs are nice and detailed.

 

[guapoalto049]

Sounds good, but I was thinking leaving the screen top and just have some twigs coming across from the sides...

Plastic on the sides is my first choice. Getting them to adjust to just use the twigs and ceiling. Having my Idolos never relying on the sides is my goal. Side molting is a disaster with larger Idolos from my experience with them.

These guys do get really big lol. Love it!!!

I have one sub-adult now that is so close to molting, her wing stubs are nice and detailed.

Yeah this first week and a half has been good, they eat very well and are fun to watch. They look almost as big as my subadult ghost lol at L3. Please keep us posted on how the plastic sides work out for the subadult

 

[Andrew]

Built a 5x4 screen cage and filled it with branches. Kept them outside in a shady part of the yard during a large part of the summer. Fed them plenty of bees, houseflies, other critters of that sort. Took the hose and showered them down a couple of times per week. By the time they hit subadult, winter started setting in, and I didn't prepare properly. Ended up losing all of them.

These were from Yen's stock, so I can't speak for any other locale, but they were pretty straightforward to keep - Warm to hot days, relatively cool nights, some humidity, good airflow and flying prey.

 

[guapoalto049]

Built a 5x4 screen cage and filled it with branches. Kept them outside in a shady part of the yard during a large part of the summer. Fed them plenty of bees, houseflies, other critters of that sort. Took the hose and showered them down a couple of times per week. By the time they hit subadult, winter started setting in, and I didn't prepare properly. Ended up losing all of them.

These were from Yen's stock, so I can't speak for any other locale, but they were pretty straightforward to keep - Warm to hot days, relatively cool nights, some humidity, good airflow and flying prey.

Have many molting problems in the large cage? (I'm assuming in was 5x4 feet)

 

[Andrew]

There were almost no molting problems at all. Yes, 5x4 feet.

Maybe I'll try and get some new photos of the cage later, can't seem to find any on my computer at the moment.

 

[Andrew]

Here it is. I ended up adding more branches and stuff to it later.

This is what I kept them in when they were younger. The Butterfly Pavillion from Insect Lore.

 

[Colorcham427]

Here it is. I ended up adding more branches and stuff to it later.

This is what I kept them in when they were younger. The Butterfly Pavillion from Insect Lore.

Some strains are simply hardier than others.

I believe I have had 3 different batches, WC ooths. I try my best to buy them at L1, I do love watching the dramatic change from jet black to white/purple/pink/tan colors! LOL

One batch, out of 18 of them, only 1 mis molted. They all were huge right out of the L1 skin.

Second batch, out of the 10 of them, 4 of them mis molted. And they were much smaller and ate flies a whole lot slower.

Third batch, out of 11 of them, 9 of them are very small, yet very active and good eaters.

I recieved 3 sexed pairs of L5's a few months ago. One out of the 6 arrived dead.

Out of all of them, only 2 have molted to sub-adult without any issues.

These mantids seem to fall a lot and break their legs. Then, they have trouble molting...

Appears to me that some are just stronger than others.

Being WC oothecae, I am sure there are parasites effecting some of the growing larvae inside of the ooths. Possibly, robbing their nutrition? Making them weaker specimens once they emerge into the real world...

I honestly hope those who love this species do NOT give up, we MUST get them going. Once in culture, CB specimens should be much healtheir coming out of the healtheir ootheca.

What are your thoughts on this guys?

 

[Colorcham427]

Built a 5x4 screen cage and filled it with branches. Kept them outside in a shady part of the yard during a large part of the summer. Fed them plenty of bees, houseflies, other critters of that sort. Took the hose and showered them down a couple of times per week. By the time they hit subadult, winter started setting in, and I didn't prepare properly. Ended up losing all of them.

These were from Yen's stock, so I can't speak for any other locale, but they were pretty straightforward to keep - Warm to hot days, relatively cool nights, some humidity, good airflow and flying prey.

When you say you hosed them down? Did you literally mimic a rain-like spray on to them? I thought this species NEEDED IT TO BE EXTREMELY DRY?

I always mist a very light sprinkle to the floor of their cages for the blue bottle flies to drink from... Should I mist their cage more to help them shed?

I have been told by so many experienced keepers to keep it dry as possible... !!!??? You seem to have done well man. Sorry about the winter cool killing them!

 

[hibiscusmile]

I disagree on keeping cb vs wc, they will never be healthier then where God placed them to be, we cannot give them same quality of food no matter what we do.

 

[Colorcham427]

I disagree on keeping cb vs wc, they will never be healthier then where God placed them to be, we cannot give them same quality of food no matter what we do.

I hope you mean god as in mother nature.

WC = parasites, how can you even put CB as less healthy? Maybe they are getting a much different source of vitamins etc. through sun light plus different foods for different insects, but still, getting CB animals of all sorts if always better than WC. Just think about it, it is common sense.

As for the god thing... lol sorry it just bothers me people still believe in such a fairy tale!

 

[ismart]

Too many pros, and cons to consider. Nature is still the better care giver in my opinion.

 

[Andrew]

When you say you hosed them down? Did you literally mimic a rain-like spray on to them? I thought this species NEEDED IT TO BE EXTREMELY DRY?

I always mist a very light sprinkle to the floor of their cages for the blue bottle flies to drink from... Should I mist their cage more to help them shed?

I have been told by so many experienced keepers to keep it dry as possible... !!!??? You seem to have done well man. Sorry about the winter cool killing them!

Yep. The shower-nozzle function worked quite well.

If I recall correctly, Christian said that there were two different varieties of Idolomantis; a highland one, and a lowland one. Apparently most if not all WC oothecae come from one of the varieties, and the stock that Yen had came from a different one? I think that's how it went.

Anyways, I remember looking up weather charts for the area - I think it was Arusha, but I can't say for sure anymore - and I saw a decent amount of rainfall. Christian also stressed a proper circadian rhythm, and I believe mentioned a temperature drop at night. Now, my group did not have a perfect record when it came to molting, but it wasn't any more of an issue than with any other species of mantis I kept. I honestly don't know if increasing humidity would help you or not, but if you're suffering a lot of losses, then it may not be a bad idea to try tweaking your system a bit. You'll notice in the second picture if you look closely that they are inside of a greenhouse. They had warm to hot days and cool, humid nights in there. They grew very fast under these conditions with plenty of houseflies and honey bees to eat. I never once fed my Idolomantis a ground-crawling insect.

What worked for me may or may not work for you. It seems this species can just be finicky and unpredictable sometimes. I would suggest finding out where your stock originated if you don't already know and looking up weather charts for that area.

 

[angelofdeathzz]

I hope you mean god as in mother nature.

WC = parasites, how can you even put CB as less healthy? Maybe they are getting a much different source of vitamins etc. through sun light plus different foods for different insects, but still, getting CB animals of all sorts if always better than WC. Just think about it, it is common sense.

As for the god thing... lol sorry it just bothers me people still believe in such a fairy tale!

Hey Brian are you always so arrogant? couple days ago you said I should respect Rick when I was joking with him, now you insult Rebecca's(and many other people's) beliefs!

you need to think about it, your mantis think your God so why couldn't there be something watching us in are little cage called earth.

you are nowhere near as smart as you think you are. so grow up and show some respect! and you owe her a apology.

as for the arrogant thing... sorry it just bothers me when people are so arrogant!