President Obama

[lancaster1313]

Many of the animals that mount the same sex, also will mount other species and even inanimate objects. But humans have been known to do that too. :lol:

 

[MantidLord]

You are diluting the force of yr argument, MantidLord, to a point where it is difficult to see your point, probably because you are being reactive rather than proactive.

Egregious errors like this don't help your case, either. There is no reason that you should know much about prison society, but if you don't, don't make statements like this without careful research.

Still, I continue to enjoy your posts! I can't remember if you are one of those who consider abortion murder. If so, could you reply to my earlier post about suitable punishments for the murderers who carry it out?

Phil, I don't remember saying abortion was murder, so if you would like to do the laborious task of finding the post where I said that, it would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime, I know I've always believed in what I said above, that abortion should not be used as birth control, but those who get an abortion should not be attacked and ridiculed as animals. Humans aren't the ones to judge. Phil, you making a statement about what I should or should not know is rather unlike you. There are many subjects I know about, yet have absolutely no experience or probably should "not" know about. In relation to the prison system, it was a multicultural class I've taken where a whole unit was devoted to the prison society. Also, listening and reading lectures form prison inmates regarding prison life can change ones perspective. Perhaps you should do the same. In other words, this "careful research" has already been done.

Now, if you can't see my point, I'll highlight it for you:

-Humans consider themselves the most advanced, social, and smartest creatures on Earth. However even the "dumbest" organisms on the planet don't go about murdering each other and committing heinous crimes against one another. Is this because we are not the smartest creatures, or is it a result of mankind being too advanced? You decide. I was simply pointing out the flaws of mankind being the most "advanced social animal" as Patrick put it.

-In terms of the sexual acts of animals, I simply stated that in animals it's not always for reproduction. Just how we humans and a few other animals engage in sex for gratification and not always reproduction, animals use sex for other means as well. Mainly, in the case of social animals and homosexual behaviors, that purpose is for strengthening bonds within the group and/or establishing dominance.

-Therefore, because of the differences that exist between human social behavior and animal social behavior, the two should not be compared. People should not look to animals to support or oppose the acts of mankind. Because with animals, it is different, their intentions and goals are different.

-As I stated in my previous post, the ease it is to compare animals to prison societies is due to how primitive those societies are. In prison, inmates basically live like animals so it's fascinating to see more similarities between the too societies. However in real life, modern society, people don't live primitive lifestyles; meaning you can't make the comparison to animals.

Does that help you?

Humans ARE animals. Whatever. You've obviously spent more time in prison than I, so I can't argue anything there.

For a 40 year old, you obviously are immature. Rather than attack my argument, you go ahead and attack me. In a debate, that's called ad hominem. Whatever the case, I'll stoop down to your level in order to answer you. I've never spent time in prison in my life, never been arrested. Never committed a crime. Never had any family in prison. As such, never drank alcohol, never stole, never smoke, never illegally driven a car. Just because I READ BOOKS about various subjects, you want to assume I've experienced those things? Pathetic. Obviously someone as uncultured as you can't relate to other people or other cultures, so it's best that you don't argue anything, because you know your brain can't handle coming back with a valid response. So I accept you stepping out of the "argument".

well according to the bible people are not animals but made in gods image and if thats the case I doubt god would be called a animal and dont believe in we evolved but wont make any arguments because it is a no win situation and not into confrontations and turn the other way if any are forged!

Thank you Massaman, this I believe in. And you're right, no point in arguing. Obviously Patrick is too single minded to understand these views or at least understand that this is what others believe in.

P.S Happy Father Day!

 

[patrickfraser]

I guess my small mind just can't comprehend your notions that humans are not animals. I will give you credit for saying so little by writing so much.

 

[Rick]

This thread...............hmmmm.

 

[MantidLord]

I guess my small mind just can't comprehend your notions that humans are not animals.

I guess so. It's unfortunate but don't be too hard on yourself.

 

[patrickfraser]

I won't let it get me down

. I did here somewhere, maybe in an old book, that the meek shall inherit the Earth. I guess i'll just wait for my inheritance. Oh, and thanks for the "personal" slamming. REALLY mature.

 

[MantidLord]

Patrick, perhaps you should do some research on that passage to understand what it's really saying. Your words and behavior don't qualify as "meek". So you'll be waiting for eternity. Not to mention the prison statement you made instead of coming up with a logical and well-balanced response, you made a sarcastic (and rather ignorant) remark. But it's okay, I'm more interested in what people who can post without attacking other members can say.

And I really hope my "slamming" didn't offend you too much. But that's what I gathered from you from your post.

 

[kamakiri]

- Guinea Pig (Domestic)

Yeah, witnessed this first hand at PetSmart! :lol:

And Happy Father's Day!

 

[PhilinYuma]

This thread...............hmmmm.

Yes, very hmmmm, and I'm out of here after this.

OK, Manridlord:

If you pursue a degree in biology and affirm that humans are not mammals,let alone "animals" you will have problems. Surely you know this?

I spent six months as a medic at Cook County Jail (good old "31st and California" for you Chicagoans) and my son spent years as a CO in both state (AZ) and Federal Prisons before joining ICE. I called him for his opinion on this topic and it agreed exactly with mine (surprise!).. Referring to the 2,000,000 or so prisoners in the US as "like animals" and therefore less, in some way, than those in the general population, does not do you or your argument much good.

Prisoners who are in for any length of time, though, do tend to join "gangs" for protection and this may be as high as 85% among long timers. In many ways, these simple organizations, call them "tribes" if you will, have many advantages over what you call the "real world"; they have no lawyers senators or representatives , for a start. Enforcement is often brutal, but the "real world" that threw them in jail to be "like animals" is pretty brutal, too. It's just that most of the brutality is hidden from the general public.

Sexual intercourse among male prisoners usually occurs between two heterosexual men and is based on domination, usually by threats. The prison population usually regards the dominant partner as "straight" and the submissive partner as "a queer". Simple as that.

I notice that you say that you never stated that abortion is murder and I believe you, but as a matter of interest can you state your view on whether it is or is not?

Cheers!

 

[massaman]

Abortion Is Murder

Enough said!

 

[MantidLord]

Yes, very hmmmm, and I'm out of here after this.

OK, Manridlord:

If you pursue a degree in biology and affirm that humans are not mammals,let alone "animals" you will have problems. Surely you know this?

I spent six months as a medic at Cook County Jail (good old "31st and California" for you Chicagoans) and my son spent years as a CO in both state (AZ) and Federal Prisons before joining ICE. I called him for his opinion on this topic and it agreed exactly with mine (surprise!).. Referring to the 2,000,000 or so prisoners in the US as "like animals" and therefore less, in some way, than those in the general population, does not do you or your argument much good.

Prisoners who are in for any length of time, though, do tend to join "gangs" for protection and this may be as high as 85% among long timers. In many ways, these simple organizations, call them "tribes" if you will, have many advantages over what you call the "real world"; they have no lawyers senators or representatives , for a start. Enforcement is often brutal, but the "real world" that threw them in jail to be "like animals" is pretty brutal, too. It's just that most of the brutality is hidden from the general public.

Sexual intercourse among male prisoners usually occurs between two heterosexual men and is based on domination, usually by threats. The prison population usually regards the dominant partner as "straight" and the submissive partner as "a queer". Simple as that.

I notice that you say that you never stated that abortion is murder and I believe you, but as a matter of interest can you state your view on whether it is or is not?

Cheers!

Phil, I don't appreciate you putting words into my mouth, I never said humans weren't mammals. I can pursue a degree in a biological science and maintain my beliefs. Obviously, there are Christian biologists who don't believe in evolution nor the idea that humans are animals. Surely you know this? Regardless, when people call humans animals, they tend to (at least in my experience) blame everything that humans do as natural. Humans are natural so they're only doing what they should naturally do. That's the main reason why I refrain from using the term. That and what Massaman posted.

Your time spent at a county jail doesn't really fit into this situation, jail is not the same as prison, so I'll only acknowledge your son's statement. You said his statement agreed with yours, however you NEVER stated anything. What's "yours"? Again, reread my post. I compared the society in which they live in as primitive. Do you not agree? I never said they were animals or less than, it really irritates me when the basis of someone's argument is nothing but fallacies and manipulation of another's words. Please read what I say Phil and don't add what you believe I feel or what you think I meant to say. Now, you went on to say how they don't have representatives, senators, etc. Does that not qualify as "primitive"? Is that the "advanced" society that humans associate with now? The "gangs" that you spoke up strongly resemble tribes, prides, or clans that you see social animals use in order to survive. I have no doubt that the "real world" is any less brutal than prison life. And I agree with you that the majority of the injustices of modern society is hidden from us. That is why a large majority of inmates find themselves back in prison after being released, they can't adjust back to the complicated (over complicated) modern life. Let me go off on a mini tangent by saying that prison is not a rehabilitation center. So Phil, I guess I can agree with what your son said, keep in mind that his perspective is from a correction officer and though he may have more insight than the average citizen, I would rather get my information from someone who's experienced prison life first hand from the prisoner's standpoint, that is, an ex inmate.

Now, didn't I say that sexual intercourse was also used as a form of dominance in the prison system? Apparently you really didn't read any of my posts Phil, because I said it twice. I even went as to say the dominant one is held high in the prison society. However I labelled the dominant one as "bi" in response to Patrick's first response to my post.

Phil, the majority of your post (save for the first part about biology and animals) does nothing but support my earlier statements. So although I admit in the beginning of replying I was kind of irritated. I thank you now for supporting me and bringing your son in to give me some back up. But seriously though, I don't have to believe everything regarding the "non-creationism" aspect of biology in order to become a successful biologist.

You want to know what I think my view on abortion is in a rather simple context. Is it murder or not. Well unfortunately I can't give you a single response. I believe it's circumstantial. Getting an abortion because you're "not ready" for a kid or because it was an "accident" is murder. Getting an abortion because having the baby maybe detrimental to your own life or due to the pregnancy being the result of rape (regardless of the child being hers, a mother can never forget how that child came to be) is not murder.

Oh! Speaking of which. I remember on another thread you and other forum members were suggesting I major in Biology because my entomology classes would leave out a lot of "core" subjects I would learn in bio. Well after visiting Cornell and talking to one of the entomology professors, he showed me all of the classes I would take if I were to major in Bio vs Ento. And the differences are major. They realize what you guys had said and designed the department in order to counter the missing of information. I still take my organic chem and other classes that Bio kids take.

 

[patrickfraser]

I'm with you, Phil. I'm out, too.

 

[PragmaticHominid]

Phil, I don't appreciate you putting words into my mouth, I never said humans weren't mammals. I can pursue a degree in a biological science and maintain my beliefs. Obviously, there are Christian biologists who don't believe in evolution nor the idea that humans are animals.

Humans are mammals but they aren't animals? Lol, how do you figure that? Last time I checked, all mammals are animals.

Well, no need to answer. Like the clever fellows above me, I am swearing off this nonsensical thread.

 

[Emile.Wilson]

 

[MantidLord]

Haha I love the US Office.

 

[lancaster1313]

:lol: I was loving the debate as well!

 

[angelofdeathzz]

Wow! I just skimmed through some of this for the first time, and I must say this is "ONE MESSED UP THREAD"!!!

 

[Ricardo]

lolreligion

We are not animals people! Despite the fact that we breed like them, we eat for energy, dispose of our waste ... ( the list goes on ) We are in fact gods elite chosen . . . Yes so holy.

All sarcasm aside I think we are everything BUT holy , and we are only special because of our intelligence, but other species have intelligence, making us, again not at all as special as people often go on about.

Yes we are animals, as is observable through science, or my method which seems to often do wonders " common sense ".

Are humans animals? Yes . . . Yes I believe we are.

wait what the heck, am I ACTUALLY arguing on the topic of " Are humans animals " ? This is ridiculous. I feel embarrassed for getting engaged in this loooooooool

 

[PragmaticHominid]

I share your astonishment and annoyance that this subject is even up for discussion, Ricadro.

Saying humans are mammals but not animals is like saying that beef steak is meat but not food. It's completely senseless.

 

[AmandaLynn]

Animal, vegetable, mineral, um... gas?

Anyway here's a link to watch,My link