Spiney flower mantis
- Thread starter Morpheus uk
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asdsdf
Coolest Member
I have no doubt that it' PW. Spikier, and not pointy abdomen. Congrats. :lol:
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Morpheus uk
Well-known member
Thx asdsdf!
How does it differ from yours then?
My brains against me, when say something like sexing i count 6 then say oh its a female, then my brain thinks, no wait does that segment count?
Argh headacke!
How does it differ from yours then?
My brains against me, when say something like sexing i count 6 then say oh its a female, then my brain thinks, no wait does that segment count?
Argh headacke!
asdsdf
Coolest Member
NP :lol:
As you may notice in my pics, especially the first one, the tip of the abdomen is pointy. On the other pics, it's camoflauged, but if you look very closely, you can see the pointy end. There is a black dot on it. Also, your spikes are way bigger than mine, and PO have little spikes. If you go to my topic about diff. between #9's, yen posted up a picture. The male PW is the same size as a female PO, and the Po has smaller spikes, and a pointier abdomen.
As you may notice in my pics, especially the first one, the tip of the abdomen is pointy. On the other pics, it's camoflauged, but if you look very closely, you can see the pointy end. There is a black dot on it. Also, your spikes are way bigger than mine, and PO have little spikes. If you go to my topic about diff. between #9's, yen posted up a picture. The male PW is the same size as a female PO, and the Po has smaller spikes, and a pointier abdomen.
Rob Byatt
Well-known member
Please note that size cannot be used to speciate.
asdsdf
Coolest Member
Why? That's one of the things Yen told me, and I have noticed that it is true. it says so on different sites too, like how an adult female PO looks like a male PW except the Po's sides stick out more. http://www.mantisphotos.com/comparingpseudo.htm (I don't agree with the dot pattern though.)
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Mantida
Well-known member
I love how there are little heart markings on the back of the abdomen of immature P. Ocellatas and P. Wahlbergiis. 
Morpheus uk
Well-known member
Missed one
asdsdf
Coolest Member
*Sigh* I guess you could just ask Rob for a second opinion(Thinking that it's behind my back.). BUT I'M RIGHT!!!! Ask Yen. He taught me all I know. (almost) :lol:
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Rob Byatt
Well-known member
asdsdf
Coolest Member
Nothing.
Edit: Okay, I couldn't write much cause it was 7 and time for school. Anyways, what I meant was that Morpheus thought he could write anything he wanted about me. You didn't really have anything to do with this.
Or at least nothing against you.
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Morpheus uk
Well-known member
Dont know baout level but they like it dry contrary to what a lot of people say, they come all the way from sunny Tanzania, i think or sumwhere in africa
asdsdf
Coolest Member
My P.Ocellata have practically no humidity. I only spray once a while, when I think they may be thirsty, but they never drink. I guess they get their fluid from the bees that I give them. (Stinger removed humanely to prevent casualties, and then use forceps.)
Hi.
First of all: do Sören and Jürg know that you use their photo on other websites?
Second: size does not matter. It may be true that Ps. wahlbergii is usually larger than Ps. ocellata, but there are also smaller ones comparable to Ps. ocellata. What then? Maybe one day there will be a stock out of a population with averagely smaller wahlbergii specimens. How can size be a factor in this case? I have seen small wahlbergiis in collections.
Third: color does not matter. Neither the color of the body, nor the one of the target mark. Nor the shape of it. You just forget that both species inhabit large parts of Africa and morphological characters may vary considerably between individuals and populations. Maybe the specimens available at the moment may be distinguishable by your characters, but what about other stocks in the future?
Fourth: the only thing that does matter between these two species, say, the only constant parameter, is the shape of the pronotum (if genitalia are excluded): if the width is almost the length it's ocellata, if the width slightly exceeds the length, it's wahlbergii. It's as simple as this. There are color differences, too, but as I said above, color cannot be used as a reliable character.
Mates, keep on breeding and just forget the ID stuff... It's hard enough even when you're in the matter, talking about this when you're not doesn't help anyone - the very least yourself.
By the way, wahlbergii inhabits drier habitats than ocellata. The latter inhabits humid to semihumid savannas, the first one semihumid to dry savannas. Ocellata occurs from W Africa to Tansania, wahlbergii inhabits the E and S parts of Africa.
Regards,
Christian
First of all: do Sören and Jürg know that you use their photo on other websites?
Second: size does not matter. It may be true that Ps. wahlbergii is usually larger than Ps. ocellata, but there are also smaller ones comparable to Ps. ocellata. What then? Maybe one day there will be a stock out of a population with averagely smaller wahlbergii specimens. How can size be a factor in this case? I have seen small wahlbergiis in collections.
Third: color does not matter. Neither the color of the body, nor the one of the target mark. Nor the shape of it. You just forget that both species inhabit large parts of Africa and morphological characters may vary considerably between individuals and populations. Maybe the specimens available at the moment may be distinguishable by your characters, but what about other stocks in the future?
Fourth: the only thing that does matter between these two species, say, the only constant parameter, is the shape of the pronotum (if genitalia are excluded): if the width is almost the length it's ocellata, if the width slightly exceeds the length, it's wahlbergii. It's as simple as this. There are color differences, too, but as I said above, color cannot be used as a reliable character.
Mates, keep on breeding and just forget the ID stuff... It's hard enough even when you're in the matter, talking about this when you're not doesn't help anyone - the very least yourself.
By the way, wahlbergii inhabits drier habitats than ocellata. The latter inhabits humid to semihumid savannas, the first one semihumid to dry savannas. Ocellata occurs from W Africa to Tansania, wahlbergii inhabits the E and S parts of Africa.
Regards,
Christian
Morpheus uk
Well-known member
Thx for the info, im just gonna keep them and then maybe another time just get a load of nymphs off someone so i dont have to ID the remaining one for a mate, and who uses who`s photos?
Gez... i was sick for a few days and this spiny flower issue exploded into such confusion! :blink: and got dragged into this by asdsdf comments. See what you have done Morpheus
I think asdsdf is a little too excited with his P. Ocellata and misunderstood what i told him as "rule" to apply :lol: . If i misled you in anyway Jasper i'm sorry but they are "generally" true especially compare to P. Wahlbergii but not the keys for ID.
Here is a link on what I "observed" on differences between PW and PO last week. I am not an entomology so don't expect any fancy terms as i am only sharing with people what i found (is that wrong?) and make it easier for people to see the differences without going through the Coxae and Tarsus hey, afterall, we are just some mantis hobbyists having fun rearing mantis and not doing it for a living (are you seriously thinking of it?!).
http://www.usamantis.com/PWvsPO.html
I will put the pics here nevertheless.
I don't know what differences can you see, but it is pretty clear to me IN GENERAL. Anyway, like Christian said, keep on breeding and just forget the ID stuff!
Also, any mantis hobbyist here who read chinese (Calvin i know you could ), there is a new chinese forum on mantis.
http://mantisclubhk.e.forumable.net/tc/index.php
and also a link for this issue.
http://mantisclubhk.e.forumable.net/tc/vie...;extra=page%3D1
By the way, my P. ocellata female just laid an ootheca
Oh by the way, those pics are mine
I think asdsdf is a little too excited with his P. Ocellata and misunderstood what i told him as "rule" to apply :lol: . If i misled you in anyway Jasper i'm sorry but they are "generally" true especially compare to P. Wahlbergii but not the keys for ID.
Here is a link on what I "observed" on differences between PW and PO last week. I am not an entomology so don't expect any fancy terms as i am only sharing with people what i found (is that wrong?) and make it easier for people to see the differences without going through the Coxae and Tarsus
hey, afterall, we are just some mantis hobbyists having fun rearing mantis and not doing it for a living (are you seriously thinking of it?!).http://www.usamantis.com/PWvsPO.html
I will put the pics here nevertheless.
I don't know what differences can you see, but it is pretty clear to me IN GENERAL. Anyway, like Christian said, keep on breeding and just forget the ID stuff!
Also, any mantis hobbyist here who read chinese (Calvin i know you could
), there is a new chinese forum on mantis.http://mantisclubhk.e.forumable.net/tc/index.php
and also a link for this issue.
http://mantisclubhk.e.forumable.net/tc/vie...;extra=page%3D1
By the way, my P. ocellata female just laid an ootheca
Oh by the way, those pics are mine
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Sweet pictures Yen! I did not expect them to be this big... for a small species.
Mine are small and black as ashes, but soon...
They are not as agressive as C. Elongata? I reckon they cannot tackle a 20-25 milimeters cricket?
Mine are small and black as ashes, but soon...
They are not as agressive as C. Elongata? I reckon they cannot tackle a 20-25 milimeters cricket?
Morpheus uk
Well-known member
Well my one has the same warning pattern asur ocealata, and the shield looks similar but not the same but the spikes look like a whlabergii!
Just what is the pooint of people bringing identicle species to culture, oh and entomoly-GIST lol
Just what is the pooint of people bringing identicle species to culture, oh and entomoly-GIST lol
