the perfect Idolomantis tank/conditions?

[captainmerkin]

In the near future I will be coming into possesion of a 70 - 100 gallon aquarium and want to do something funky with it.

I am a huge fan of the idolomantis but failed with my last one so want to try again in future.

at the moment its just in the planning stage but I think I would like to try and breed a load of idolomantis in their almost natural conditions.

I need some facts first to help with the plan!

(I know that breeders advise against keeping mantids together for obvious reasons and also advise against large tanks, however I belive this can work)

Firstly, habitat... what is the idolomantis' natural habitat? (i hear long grass of India and woodland)

Temperature? I would expect daytime around 30 degrees C and nightime 15 - 20 but really have no facts on that.

Humidity, fairly high? (though different breeders advise different things)

60 - 80% at a guess.

Tank will be set up with around 4 inch of top soil planted thickly with grass, there will be a few raises for a rock shelf and one side will be a false wall with a possible small water feature and some back lighting, some creeping fig and wondering jew going up it.

Also putting a small rise in at each end for more "hangy" plants to grow where the mantis can shed etc..

Their natural diet is also something I need to know.. if its butterflies I will buy them in as live food or hatch them for them, if its flies even better I have millions...

Very early planning stages now so let me know any thoughts or answers to what I am missing or wrong with.

thanks as always

 

[buddhistsoldier88]

I have nothing to contribute facts wise but I support your idea and hope it works! Rick is doing something similar with his mantids and has had quite a bit of success with it if I have my facts right. :lol: Good luck! and keep us posted!!!

 

[captainmerkin]

I am waiting on the tank to arrive from my parents who inherited it from someone who has kept terrapins for years (they no longer need it as they got so hardy they can even survive british winters outside!*with a pond heater)

First step is getting it planted and walls fitted and lighting, then try and sort out a hood if it does not have one already.. (I think a plant of wood will do the job really)

cant wait to at least get started on it!

 

[buddhistsoldier88]

Before and after pics? :lol: Thatd be a great idea! Show us the whole process of your home building process! :shock: thats brilliant!

 

[captainmerkin]

Before and after pics? :lol: Thatd be a great idea! Show us the whole process of your home building process! :shock: thats brilliant!

don't worry there will be!

 

[ThorEH]

You're rather way of in a couple of things here!

The Idolomantis originates from Tanzania, in Africa !

And it's a flower mimicry species, so in long grass it's camouflage would count for nothing, so I think you should reconsider your biotop in the tank!

 

[captainmerkin]

You're rather way of in a couple of things here!The Idolomantis originates from Tanzania, in Africa !

And it's a flower mimicry species, so in long grass it's camouflage would count for nothing, so I think you should reconsider your biotop in the tank!

hmmm well thats kind wierd since they are all over the place in goa........ in long grass...

but this is what this thread is for, finding out FACTS and ideas , since I know they are in goa/india...

also I am confused how this mantis can mimic a flower, I have never seen a flower that looks like this before in any ways!

please provide facts and thoughts still it is all good

 

[ThorEH]

http://ttwebbase.dyndns.org/mantid/view/78.html

I have picked out a quote for you from the first link.

As you can se they are only found in eastern parts of Africa, not Asia.

But perhaps some similar species ?

Distribution AER: Ethopia, Kenya, Malawi, Somalia, Tanzania, Uganda

hmmm well thats kind wierd since they are all over the place in goa........ in long grass... but this is what this thread is for, finding out FACTS and ideas , since I know they are in goa/india...

How do you KNOW this ?

http://www.mantis-inc.co.uk/idolomantis.htm

http://www.insectchat.com/general-mantid-d...-live--314.html

http://www.pets-classifieds.co.uk/c62d17466.php

also I am confused how this mantis can mimic a flower, I have never seen a flower that looks like this before in any ways!

So you have never seen an orchid ? Which is one of the flowers they mimic...

Never seen a flower with these colours before ?

 

[captainmerkin]

goa because a friend just got back from there and has a ton of pictures of wild idolomantis..

agree that the adults have the colours to match, but not the nymphs

however like I said till I have the tank and can start work on it then this thread is a bit of fact finding so cheers for the links!

 

[ThorEH]

Here's a picture of a L2 nymph.. pretty much flower colors on them to

The L1, on the otherhand if often black... But nymphs from L2 and up seems tu mimic flowers

 

[Christian]

Hi.

Idolomantis is definitely from Africa! I do not know exactly, what you saw in India, but it was certainly not an Idolomantis!

There are, however, other Empusids occurring in India, which may have some potential to be confounded with Idolomantis adults or larvae. First of all, Gongylus gongylodes and the much rarer G. trachelophyllus, then Blepharopsis mendica and 1-2 Empusa species.

By the way, Idolomantis does not mimic flowers! The position shown in the photo is the threat pose, also called startling display, and designed to scare a potiential enemy. Flowers are not really scary... The effect works potentially by resembling a large eye, more conservatively seen just by the contrast between the green upper side and the suddenly appearing striking colors. This is also shown in several moths.

Regards,

Christian

 

[Asa]

Hi.Idolomantis is definitely from Africa! I do not know exactly, what you saw in India, but it was certainly not an Idolomantis!

There are, however, other Empusids occurring in India, which may have some potential to be confounded with Idolomantis adults or larvae. First of all, Gongylus gongylodes and the much rarer G. trachelophyllus, then Blepharopsis mendica and 1-2 Empusa species.

By the way, Idolomantis does not mimic flowers! The position shown in the photo is the threat pose, also called startling display, and designed to scare a potiential enemy. Flowers are not really scary... The effect works potentially by resembling a large eye, more conservatively seen just by the contrast between the green upper side and the suddenly appearing striking colors. This is also shown in several moths.

Regards,

Christian

Yes, captainmerkin, there are many similiar species in India, but not Idolomantis.

That is a threat pose, but the Idolomantis does mimic flowers. You can tell that with their designs. They match well with the African grown bulleyflower which is near their 'habitat' or as close as one is for a mantis.

 

[Christian]

What is a "bulleyflower"? :?

 

[ThorEH]

I was not saying that it was mimicing a flower in the threatpose, but rather showing the pictures for the purpose of showing the colours on the Idolomantis.

But after what I have read in different places on the internet, they are a flower mimicing species, the english name also "verifies" this ? "African Devil Flower Mantis". The colours they have, are that way to blend in with the conditions where they hunt, and together with species such as p.wahlbergii, c.elongata and b.mendica they do hunt from i.e flowers such as orchids.. Or am I dead wrong ?

 

[Christian]

Hm... yes...

The name "Devil's Flower" (and that's the only real one) arose from a misunderstanding of an old author called Sharp, which never saw a living one but got a specimen sent by a collegue together with a description of the threat pose. The misunderstanding was that the threat pose was regarded as the hunting pose, in a way that the mantis should mimic a flower and catch the arriving insects just by flexing the tibia against the femur, say, without the typical mantis strike. In real, all colors are conceiled in the usual mantid hanging pose, and the insects are captured by a normal strike. Despite of the slight pink tinge of L2 larvae and the colors of the adults, there is nothing flowerlike in this species. Dwelling around in bushes and around blooms is observable in all species, as they rest where most prey movements occur. The only real flower mantids, which search to rest primarily on inflorescences (but are also found somewhere else), are Hymenopus, Pseudocreobotra, Creobroter, Pseudoharpax, and some other Hymenopodinae. Idolomantis and Gongylus do hunt in scrubs and bushes, but, as far as I observed, do not explicitely search to rest on flowers. Both live in low savanna or dry forest scrubs and treelets where orchids are rather rare, by the way. :wink:

The only thing that may attract prey is the underside of the prothorax in both species and if this really works has still to be proved. The purple and blue of the forelegs is not seen in the living specimen. On the contrary, despite its size, Idolomantis is rather well camouflaged in dense foliage.

Regards,

Christian

 

[Asa]

Hm... yes... The name "Devil's Flower" (and that's the only real one) arose from a misunderstanding of an old author called Sharp, which never saw a living one but got a specimen sent by a collegue together with a description of the threat pose. The misunderstanding was that the threat pose was regarded as the hunting pose, in a way that the mantis should mimic a flower and catch the arriving insects just by flexing the tibia against the femur, say, without the typical mantis strike. In real, all colors are conceiled in the usual mantid hanging pose, and the insects are captured by a normal strike. Despite of the slight pink tinge of L2 larvae and the colors of the adults, there is nothing flowerlike in this species. Dwelling around in bushes and around blooms is observable in all species, as they rest where most prey movements occur. The only real flower mantids, which search to rest primarily on inflorescences (but are also found somewhere else), are Hymenopus, Pseudocreobotra, Creobroter, Pseudoharpax, and some other Hymenopodinae. Idolomantis and Gongylus do hunt in scrubs and bushes, but, as far as I observed, do not explicitely search to rest on flowers. Both live in low savanna or dry forest scrubs and treelets where orchids are rather rare, by the way. :wink:

The only thing that may attract prey is the underside of the prothorax in both species and if this really works has still to be proved. The purple and blue of the forelegs is not seen in the living specimen. On the contrary, despite its size, Idolomantis is rather well camouflaged in dense foliage.

Regards,

Christian

A Bulley-flower appears to be grass, but is actually classified as a flower. The Idolomantis blends in with this grass well, and will use it readily to lay her oothecae on, so basically, it could be considered a 'flower mantis', if not technically.

Nice history lesson

 

[Christian]

Do you have a scientific name for the "bulleyflower"?

Greetings,

Christian

PS: Idolomantis is an arboreal species, it uses bushes and scrubs in nature. In the terrarium, of course, it has to use what is offered. This may not be equal with the resting places it chooses in the natural environment. The green color of adults greatly refects this, as grass dies out in the dry season whereas bushes stay green most of the time, even if they loose some leaves. Even the larvae are rather leaf than grass mimics. Older Idolomantis larvae have considerable difficulties walking on the even ground - nothing reflects their arboreal lifestyle more than this. Grass species have other adaptations.

 

[Asa]

Wish I did, but I've forgotten it :?

 

[ThorEH]

Well, at least I got right that they're from Africa

Thanks for splendid information Christian, perhaps you even could answer the Captains question ?