A strange method of slowing down growth

[yen_saw]

This method doesn;t sound very ethical at all, but apparently it works for a friend of mine (not going to mention name). I just want to know what you guys think.

To slow down the growth of male orchid mantis, a leg is clipped away during early stage and therefore the "handicap" specimen took a longer time to moult and so reach adulthood the same time as female orchid.

Crazy way but seems to work for my friend. I have never done it nevertheless.

 

[echostatic]

in my opinion deliberately wounding a creature like that just to slow it down is wrong.

 

[sablechapter]

haha yea this method is kinda unethical but it works

one of the orchids I received lost its leg at L2, and it grew at a MUCh slower rate than the others

 

[joossa]

Interesting... I wouldn't do it, though. I would just stick to stuffing the female and keeping her at a higher temperature than the male.

 

[OGIGA]

When is it clipped? It can't be earlier than when you can determine gender, right?

By the way, let's not prune our trees anymore. jk

 

[Rick]

I don't understand why you woudl even want to slow it down. I have no problems with their growth rate. The males mature much faster but it does not affect breeding.

 

[drizzt]

:shock:

This is an live animal, not a thing!!

Im shocked, really.

Its not all about "production" of mantises and fast money.. :/

 

[hibiscusmile]

Oh, looks like a hornet nest is brewing :shock:

 

[Deutschherper]

Deliberately wounding a living thing just so it'll grow more slowly is wrong.

 

[buddhistsoldier88]

i gotta keep my opinions to myself on matters such this or ill be temporarily banned im sure :roll: ... but most of you know my opinion on matters such as these...

 

[Andrew]

All ethics and pointlessness aside, it's still an interesting observation.

 

[Sparky]

All ethics and pointlessness aside, it's still an interesting observation.

True.

Why not just keep the temperature and humidity lower and feed it less?

I tried this with 6 mantids?

3 was left in shade where its cool and i hardly mist their container.

3 was on my drawer where the temperature was good between 80-90F and I sprayed them daily.

Out of dumb luck the 6 mantids I chose were all male chinese raised from L1's(I gave the other 5 away now)

the mantids that were by the wall are still L5's and one is still an L4.(which bothers me)

The other grew into subadults.

 

[asdsdf]

Yep, I don't really agree with the method.(Although, mantids don't really feel REAL pain. It's more like a reflex.) Sparky, I'm not sure about humidity, but cooler temperature does slow down growth, however, Yen's friend could justify what he/she does since it may be harder to achieve a cooler temp.

SO..... :?

 

[Precious]

I am curious to know how many of you that are so concerned with "ethics" support abortion?

The most recent pain studies on invertebrates experiencing pain are inconclusive at best. Most experts concede that insects do not have a "brain" capable of processing pain as we do. Thus, the cricket with a crushed tarsus (not my own example) runs around without even favoring the injury and locust will continue to eat while being eaten. A recent lobster pain study explains it better than I can. I don't think it is good for society to promote the ill treatment of insects but I do think one should be reasonable. My dog's tail is docked and it was docked as most are, as a pup by the breeder without anesthetic and I'm glad she's not a risk for some pretty awful injuries to her tail. Where have all the men gone?

Yen - it is interesting to me because my male Chinese was a solid month behind my female and he'd lost half a leg at L4.

http://www.livescience.com/animals/ap_lobs...ain_050214.html

 

[Andrew]

I am curious to know how many of you that are so concerned with "ethics" support abortion?

99.9% of the time that abortion is mentioned on a message board, it turns into a flame war. Lets all forget this came up before it becomes a problem, lol.

Anyways, some of you ought to check out that link that Precious posted. I've only skimmed it, but it looks like it pretty much sums up the invertebrate-pain issue from a scientific viewpoint.

 

[modliszki]

Calling a web site livescience doesn't neccessarily mean that it is a scientific one. BTW one can find article "Satellite Searches Could Spot Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster" at the same web page....

The rule of thumb in scientific publications is quoting a reliable source. So next time look for a better source (i truly recommend pubmed at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed , and for the more popular approach, however based on reliable news and real research http://www.sciencedaily.com/)

For some reason all this story reminds me an old anecdote (dating form communist era in my country)...

It is about a Soviet enomologist working on fly hearing organs. He has been asked to prove if removing of the limbs affects hearing.

He dissected a leg, and shouted "Walk!" and the fly walked away.

Than he dissceted second leg, shouted "Walk!, and the fly walked away, again... An so on with the third and fourth leg.

Upon removing fifth leg, he shouted "Walk!" but the fly just fallen down on the lab bench. He shouted once again, but without any response from the fly...So the entomologist written down in hus lab journal: Upon dissection of five legs, the fly is completely deaf...

So this is about "science", and drawing conclusions matching your a priori assumptions. (and it is also about condition of science in Soviet Union )...

I am a scientist myself and it really pisses me off, when some guys mimic scientific approach to justify their weirdest ideas, or bussines of a big company(sadly, but the latter case is too often true in the medicine)....

Insects and inverts feel the pain - of course the other way than we do, but their nervous system is sophisticated enough to respond such a stimuli. So mutilating them just to have fun is not the best idea, and the run for cash doesn't justify it....

 

[yen_saw]

Thanks for all the great comments and feedback!!

 

[lionsden112002]

I an new here and am not an official bug keeper hobbyist so as I read this post I wondered about the food we feed our mantids.

I watch with fascination each time my chinese snatches up a cricket and begins devouring. That strike and feeding action is part of the totally cool thing about mantids.

do crickets hurt? How big a bug does it need to be before some level of ethical concern is cognated.

:?

regards

 

[hibiscusmile]

They do bite the mantis if the situation gives them the opportunity, If yu grab one of their legs with tweezers, notice how they bend towards that leg, they are trying to free it by attacking the tweezers, if that does not work they then will usually let the leg fall off as do grasshoppers. They also will eat the mantis and anything else if they are able. I notice many times in their house that they eat the younger and feeble crickets.