Idolomantis Consolidated

[Christian]

I might have missed it, but all the pics I saw showed suboptimal enclosures. I cannot say anything about whether the 16 W heater is sufficient - everything that raises the temps to the desired level may help - but there were too few thin branches inside and much too much flowers, stones, roots and the like. There should really by nothing inside except those branches. Glass terraria may be enhanced by sticking polystyrene to the walls (inside). Net cages work if the bug room is heated during the day, otherwise you don't get the right temps.

 

[Precarious]

So, good luck guys. There is a record to be broken!

Thank you for all the info! That clears things up.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Good to see you back after so long, Christian. You will be pleased to know that Sporeworld, the author of this thread, at least, has the back copies of Orin's Elytra and Antenna that carried the Idolomantis article by you and your friends. As ypu know, they are being bred en masse in Poland. Do you know if your original article in German was translated into Polish?

 

[Christian]

Not necessarily. Europeans usually speak more than one language, so understanding caresheets written in a foreign language is not an unusual thing. That caresheet published in Orin's Journal was a translation of a previously published article in German. And much info spread via forums. I didn't make a joke when I said that the info is out there. People just should be able to extract it out of the ######. From time to time, some do it and are paid by successes. Having a "green thumb" for mantids also helps, bacause you can compensate lack of info with intuition and a somewhat "common sense" for biological requirements.

 

[sporeworld]

Hiya, Christian! Big fan of your work.

As far as I can tell, the reports from those journals aren't available online, unless you're talking about something else. I started this before getting my copies.

I'm assuming you guys started from some point and built on top of that. Hopefull we can build on what YOU built. I'm confident that there is more than one right way. I did quite a few things wrong (different) the last time around and still had some limited success. I now, thanks to you and several other breeders, we have the numbers to support some experimentation, and try to add to the knowledge base.

I think the "fancy stuff" IS supportable, just not in the higher instars. I've proven this for L1, L2, L3, L4 and now (I suspect) L5. As I acknowledged, I'll need something else beyond that. I can still have my "Fancy" by using birch or decorative branches, instead of boring old sticks. I'll think of something to satisfy my sensibilities...

Thanks for the update on humidity and temps. Glad to finally hear from you.

BTW, what's the record? I like a good challenge...

Note: I added your temp & Humidity notes to the careheet draft at the beginning of the thread.

Note: (2011-08-24) As of this date, I'm 3 for 3 to adult with the "Fancy Stuff"...

 

[sporeworld]

Here's a link to a video from Precarious (used with permission). I think this single, video contribution is one of THE most valuable peices of evidence in the entire Idolomantis Molting debate. You can see the tiny little split toe holding the cloth net. You can see why the flip is important, and the "precarious" (couldn't resist) way she scrambles around to get to a comfortable position.

To the rest our little community - PLEASE, PLEASE contribute!

 

[angelofdeathzz]

Yes sir, I loved this video when I first seen it a while back, and I still love it now, the only problem I see is you will need to catch all your Idolo's in the act of molting(which all mine did in the middle of the night) to get the side net in place, if you can well then this is perfect!!!

But I for one sleep at night(most of the time)so my set up is something close to this but with many more branches and gripable leaves running from the floor to the top, so if I miss the molt they can flip on there own and give me a wide eyed surprise when I wake up.

Here is some samples with my old camera(not even close to Henry's quality, sorry)

Male Adult

Even more branches

Sub adults next to old skin

I do have one regret, it's that Precarious didn't take these shot's for me. :blush:

 

[Precarious]

Yes sir, I loved this video when I first seen it a while back, and I still love it now, the only problem I see is you will need to catch all your Idolo's in the act of molting(which all mine did in the middle of the night) to get the side net in place, if you can well then this is perfect!!!

Exactly. The net curtain is literally just a safety net. It got the job done till I could figure out how to get by without it. The first generation was just about getting through all the molts however I could. Now comes the refining process.

The reality is, in order to avoid the necessity of human intervention during molt, a large space filled with branches is required. I worry about spacing since too much density would interfere with later molts. I believe adjusting enclosure content as they mature is unavoidable if we expect them to do well at each stage. There will be some trial and error involved.

I got some footage of wing fluttering last night and this morning I found the girls laid a 3rd ooth. It's a shame it will never hatch.

 

[angelofdeathzz]

I even use this method on my Wandering Violins

But here's one or two I just like

 

[sporeworld]

Hahahahah! Brilliant!

While it's a safer bet to split them up, it's so much more satisfying to keep them together (well, til adult). Provided you keep them well fed, you won't have a problem. But let me re-phrase that: I have a replacement Idolo here that says I'm right, and that you'll be fine keeping them together! A gentleman's/woman's wager - if I'm wrong, I'll send you an Idolo free of charge (from whichever instar I have at the time - L1-5 atm), but if I'm right... I get... (looks around for something interesting)... that pink tennis ball!!! Yeah! The coveted Pink Manti-Ball!

Just trying to liven things up. I suppose you'd have to send me the chomped remains, but still.

(C'mon... take the bait...) :tt2:

 

[alicenwnderlnd]

Hahahahah! Brilliant!

While it's a safer bet to split them up, it's so much more satisfying to keep them together (well, til adult). Provided you keep them well fed, you won't have a problem. But let me re-phrase that: I have a replacement Idolo here that says I'm right, and that you'll be fine keeping them together! A gentleman's/woman's wager - if I'm wrong, I'll send you an Idolo free of charge (from whichever instar I have at the time - L1-5 atm), but if I'm right... I get... (looks around for something interesting)... that pink tennis ball!!! Yeah! The coveted Pink Manti-Ball!

Just trying to liven things up. I suppose you'd have to send me the chomped remains, but still.

(C'mon... take the bait...) :tt2:

Bait taken!

I have a huge extro-terra I want to put them all in,(but scared) so this weekend they all move from the small one to the large one! together! I am watching number 5 molt to L-4 now... so far they have been really good together, even with my little runt trouble maker. who has moved to solitaire twice! but i keep putting him back because i like to see them together. the pink tennis ball has your name on it :lol: :lol:

 

[alicenwnderlnd]

I think they wiggle out faster than most, start to finish was less than 10 minutes... had to grab back up camera so pic not great, battery on the charger and did not have time to put it in. they seem to resume eating quicker than other species too. have you noticed that or is that my imagination? but then again i think they eat more then others. :chef:



P1010553 by alicenwnderlnd, on Flickr

 

[sporeworld]

Yup! And if I make a loud noise or bang something, they get things moving even quicker.

I just got 4 of those Exo-Terras and (over) dressed them. I've got a bunch in a monarch cage that look at me like "Why do we have to live in the projects"? Poor guys. I screamed out, "I'm working the burn gun... I mean GLUE gun, as fast as I can!!"

 

[Precarious]

they seem to resume eating quicker than other species too. have you noticed that or is that my imagination?

Mine sometimes eat while they're molting! They pass the fly from one claw, pull it out of the old skin, then pass it back as they molt the second claw, taking bites periodically through the whole process! :blink:

OK, that was a joke...

I think you'll enjoy them more as a group. I've never seen any cannibalism and I raised my last batch together. That's not to say it hasn't ever happened, but they are not aggressive toward each other and they don't usually go for large prey.

 

[angelofdeathzz]

4 L-4's today! this weekend, i think we will be moving to the "BIG KID" enclosures. I am Still concerned about keeping them together, so i think i will be separating them, I have one picked out for modeling and a pink tennis ball!

Can't wait to see those's pics!!! And don't worry I keep well over 30 in the bigger 24x18x18 Exo, and like 7 in a smaller 12x12x12 Exo, as long as it's not L1 with L4 you should be good to go(well fed).

I've come to know Sporeworld well in the last few months, and I can tell you he's not joking with his bet with you, He's a great and well rounded member that just wants to see everybody happy....

And I've had many new molts eat within 1 hour or less, they have that Cookie Monster mentality, I hear them say"Cookiieee yum yum yum".

 

[alicenwnderlnd]

ok, guys I am reassured about keeping them together! I would much prefer it anyway! I have them in a 12X12X18 right now, but i picked up a big one a few weeks ago. since i have been so undecided about leaving them together, it has stayed unused... thanks sporeworld for making it easy!

 

[sporeworld]

Wow! I've never seen (or noticed) it THAT fast. Sure they don't just "all look the same"?

I know the fastest I clocked the L1-L3's was a little less than 24 hours. I'm shocked their little mouth peices can even work that soft. (Wait, are you guys being sarcastic?).

 

[animalexplorer]

I have them in a 24x18x18 Exo just like Nick's(He recommended the bigger size, so I said what the heck) Mine are doing fine as a community. I've observed several times where one individual barges right into a cluster of them and climbs right over the other(s) without incident, looks like a mosh pit dance. I also love the face downs where they are pretty much face to face with their arms up at each other(lol). These are simply fantastic to observe as a community.

 

[alicenwnderlnd]

I am serious about the hour and 36 minutes, i watched this guy molt( I could easily tell them apart because was the only L-4) and watched him catch a fly and eat it I am sure he was not even fully dried! I was shocked, and amazed! they defiantly have beauty and brawn! :taz:

 

[alicenwnderlnd]

I have them in a 24x18x18 Exo just like Nick's(He recommended the bigger size, so I said what the heck) Mine are doing fine as a community. I've observed several times where one individual barges right into a cluster of them and climbs right over the other(s) without incident, looks like a mosh pit dance. I also love the face downs where they are pretty much face to face with their arms up at each other(lol). These are simply fantastic to observe as a community.

I have just gotten used to this nerve racking behavior! i kept taking my trouble maker out, as he would jump in a mosh pit regularly, run to another and throw his arms up! he was giving me grey hair! i thought for sure he was going to be a snack! I have loosened up a bit though, as now i have insurance and they are great as a community! but than again i think they all are better as a community!