Internal parasites

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Rick said:
I am going to keep them and see what they turn into. I assume that once they kill the mantis they will pupate since their food source is now gone. The abdomens of these mantids are nearly empty after these things come out. I was hoping somebody will some knowledge on this would chime in. Christian?
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Yeah, that's pretty much the trend when dealing with a parasite and it's host. There's a possiblity that what if the parasites are not ready to pupate yet? There were quite a few parasites and due to that, maybe they couldn't get the necessary nutrients yet to pupate? If they are not quite ready yet to pupate, are you going to feed them so that you'll at least know (and hopefully share with us) what those things are when they become adults? This is something that I haven't encountered and as a mantid breeder, I, as well as anyone else, would like to know this other threat to mantids.

 
If it is some kind of fly, they will probably continue to feed on the mantis carcass until they are ready to pupate. Also you might want to keep them on a damp paper towel or sphagnum moss, so they have somewhere to pupate when they are ready.

 
Wow,... Yuck.

This sucks.

Yeah, I know there are mantis parasites such as species of nematomorpha who enter the host's body through what the mantis eats,

but I don't know any parasitic fly larvae that enters that way. Most likely what Phil said is what happened.

Still... freakin' gross. Yes, like the others I am definitely curious to find out what the adults look like.

So I can kill them if I see any near my mantises.

 
they are likely, as phil said, tachinid flies. they wont feed on the dead mantis. now that they have left its corpse, they will pupate. the eggs were laid on the mantis as ingestion would kill them. parasitic nematodes are specifically designed to survive the gut environment.

 
Tachinid Fly

* Prey: The tachinid fly will parasitize grasshoppers, beetles, larvae, caterpillars etc. They will often take on large hosts such as the tomato hornworm. Some not all species are host specific, only preying on there chosen diet.

* Habits: The female tachinid fly will lay her eggs on the host insect skin, however sometimes the eggs will be injected into the body of the host. The larvae then hatch and feed on host insect. Sometimes the host ingests the fly's eggs only to have the fly destroy the host upon hatching. Adults enjoy pollen and nectar as well, and can serve duel purpose in the garden as pollinators.

* Appearance: This large fly often will be seen with a blue metallic abdomen. There are over 1400 North American species in the family Tachinidae. Adults have incredibly distinct bristles on the end of their abdomens. They are a similar size to the common housefly but can occasionally resemble bees.

http://attra.ncat.org/intern_handbook/entomology.html

 
AmandaLynn said:
If it is some kind of fly, they will probably continue to feed on the mantis carcass until they are ready to pupate. Also you might want to keep them on a damp paper towel or sphagnum moss, so they have somewhere to pupate when they are ready.
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Yes. Already been done.

 
Here is that subadult Iris oratoria female I was speaking of. I found her yesterday (Tuesday, 9/23/09) in my back yard. Her abdomen was black, but not torn open.

Today (Wednesday), I went back to the same place and she is still there. However, her abdomen is now torn open and has a huge hole in it. The poor thing is still alive....

These are pictures from this afternoon....

P9230009.jpg


P9230011.jpg


It's similar to what you have there Rick...

 
Those flesh flies are scary. I have noticed that the specimen is usually bloated and very slow when it is infected with the larvae. In grasshoppers, their abdomens are turgid and plump. I think the weaker structure of a mantid's abdomen caused it to rupture compared to a grasshopper's.

 
I think Phil is onto something (as usual). My guess is that the larvae are from a fly species of the family Tachinidae. Adults can't penetrate ooths, since females have a reduced ovipositor, but it could have attacked a nymph. Strange though, they mainly parasitise caterpillars (I know all too well <_< ). I don't believe that the mantid ingested the maggots. Their mandibles chop the food very finely. One theory I have is that the mantid caught a recently parasitised prey & the maggots decided to switch ship as the mantid was eating. Any takers?

All I know is that the mantid had to have been parasitised for a while, or at least a similar period of time for a young caterpillar to pupate.

Ntsees: the idea behind parasitism is for the parasite to leech off of the host until it is ready to enter the next phase of its life. It doesn't make sense for it to kill the host prematurely with no definite food source in sight. The maggots shown above will probably pupate soon. If they don't, god bless 'em, they screwed themselves over :D

Edit: oops, only read the 1st page :S Pardon me for sounding like a parrot.

 
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Interesting to see this topic! I got into a conversation about this very subject today with a recently retired USDA (pest/extension office) guest to my home. He's from Louisiana and has been collecting and raising mantids down there for many years. He had witnessed many instances of tachinid parisitism in mantids. He would collect them as young nymphs and the results described above would ensue. He also made a reference to seeing horse hair worms as mantis parasites. You have to drop the dead mantis in water to see them emerge. ( http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden...4horsehair.html )

Flies in tachinidae are usually just called tachinid flies, while the closely related flies in sarcophagidae are the flesh flies (gray and black thorax with checkered abdomen).

I'm starting to think that feeding those two huge tachinid flies to some breeder female mantises today was a less than great idea. Maybe I should have taken my chameleon's advice when he passed on them.

 
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Interesting stuff. I have also seen thin, long worms in grasshoppers but not in mantids. Interesting that some mantids are infected and others are not. I think I will continue to bring home every mantis I find this time of year that is way behind in growth. The others I have are ok it seems. One molted. No evidence of parasites with those. You can bet these flies will be destroyed.

 
I am wondering, if they will spread from one to another before hatching? or in simpler terms, is it safe to keep wild caught mantis in the same room as the captive ones in different cages?

 
hibiscusmile said:
I am wondering, if they will spread from one to another before hatching? or in simpler terms, is it safe to keep wild caught mantis in the same room as the captive ones in different cages?
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i would say, 'yes.' once a maggot has found its home in an organism, it ain't going to budge until it's ready to pupate, except in unusual circumstances.

 

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