Internal parasites

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Rick said:
Phil, this mantis was alive and well right before the emergence of the maggots. Just clarifying that in case you missed it. Well, the little nasties have hardened up. I will see if they hatch.
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Yeah. I totally confused your and Joosa's pix. There is no doubt in my mind that a mantis lagging way behind in its development and then dying just before or after its final instar is parasitized, and the maggots confirm it. I don't know whether the number of maggots is normal or not, but since the eggs of tachinids would have been laid on the mantis's cuticle, the pheromone trick might not work and the mantis may have been parasitized by more than one fly.Glad you mentioned that. Now I can change my bet before the gate goes up!

 
hibiscusmile said:
I usually think of this parasite whenever talk of them comes up, I have seen this in my garden and always freaks me out, anyone else seen this? This parasite lays it inside the hornworn.http://elmostreport.blogspot.com/2008/09/t...conid-wasp.html
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I looked up the URL, Rebecca, and the part that most sickened me was: "Hornworms found covered with wasp cocoon should not be killed, but allowed to live -- for just a little while longer -- so the Braconid wasps can complete their life cycle and then paraticize more hornworms." I bet that these folks believe in water boarding for a good cause, too! :angry: (and they can't even spell parasitize!)

 
PhilinYuma said:
Yeah. I totally confused your and Joosa's pix. There is no doubt in my mind that a mantis lagging way behind in its development and then dying just before or after its final instar is parasitized, and the maggots confirm it. I don't know whether the number of maggots is normal or not, but since the eggs of tachinids would have been laid on the mantis's cuticle, the pheromone trick might not work and the mantis may have been parasitized by more than one fly.Glad you mentioned that. Now I can change my bet before the gate goes up!
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They have pupated. Now I wait and see.

 
Phil, I do let them live when I see this, only because I have a lot of hornworms and my sister screams when she sees them, plus I thought, it was an interesting thing to obseve, but maybe I shouldn't have, but the site said they were laid inside the hornworm and came out when ready, so really the damage was already done inside of it. Sorry if I made a mistake.

 
I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if it was said before:

There aren't many records of dipteran parasitism in mantids, with the parasite often left undetermined. Three families are known today: Tachinidae, Sarcophagidae and Nemestrinidae. The mantids aren't infected by eating the fly; the fly lays eggs or maggots on the mantis which then borrow into the mantid. They can live for a long time with the parasite, but is seems to be always lethal. I once found a maggot attached to the thoracic musculature of a Sph. lineola I dissected in order to remove the guts. It lived in my hut for some weeks when I was in the Ivory Coast several years ago. I found it as a nymph and it molted to adulthood some weeks later. Before departure I killed it and found the fly larva inside.

Hymenopterans, if not egg parasites, act different: they grab the mantis, paralyze it, and bury it alive underground. The egg is laid to the side of the mantid(s).

 
Christian said:
I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if it was said before:There aren't many records of dipteran parasitism in mantids, with the parasite often left undetermined. Three families are known today: Tachinidae, Sarcophagidae and Nemestrinidae. The mantids aren't infected by eating the fly; the fly lays eggs or maggots on the mantis which then borrow into the mantid. They can live for a long time with the parasite, but is seems to be always lethal. I once found a maggot attached to the thoracic musculature of a Sph. lineola I dissected in order to remove the guts. It lived in my hut for some weeks when I was in the Ivory Coast several years ago. I found it as a nymph and it molted to adulthood some weeks later. Before departure I killed it and found the fly larva inside.

Hymenopterans, if not egg parasites, act different: they grab the mantis, paralyze it, and bury it alive underground. The egg is laid to the side of the mantid(s).
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Interesting. Interesting that some mantids are affected and others are not. Wonder if it would be beneficial to destroy these mantids when they are found.

 
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Rick said:
Interesting. Interesting that some mantids are affected and others are not. Wonder if it would be beneficial to destroy these mantids when they are found.
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Whether you destroy infected mantids or not is up to you. But one thing is certain - since we're mantid enthusiasts, don't let those parasites (when they come out of their pupae) escape.

 
Parasitoids are not 'bad' and mantids are not 'good'. It's a predator-prey relationship like that between mantid and cricket.

 
Christian said:
Parasitoids are not 'bad' and mantids are not 'good'. It's a predator-prey relationship like that between mantid and cricket.
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Couldn't agree more. If it wasn't for birds/lizards, and parasites, the mantid population would become too large.

 
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Christian said:
Parasitoids are not 'bad' and mantids are not 'good'. It's a predator-prey relationship like that between mantid and cricket.
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True, that parasitoids are not bad. It depends on the situation and personal preference. If you had a garden of tomatoe plants, you'd wish parasitoids were everywhere so they'll get rid of the pests (tobacco hornworm, etc.). But then again, if you own let's say a fish farm, you'd do your best to keep your fish parasite-free so you can sell them in the market (no one wants parasite-infested fish). And yeah, mantids are not all good (ex: feeding on beneficial insects), but we happen to like them so we'll do what we can to protect the ones we have.

 
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Ntsees said:
True, that parasitoids are not bad. It depends on the situation and personal preference. If you had a garden of tomatoe plants, you'd wish parasitoids were everywhere so they'll get rid of the pests (tobacco hornworm, etc.). But then again, if you own let's say a fish farm, you'd do your best to keep your fish parasite-free so you can sell them in the market (no one wants parasite-infested fish). And yeah, mantids are not all good (ex: feeding on beneficial insects), but we happen to like them so we'll do what we can to protect the ones we have.
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In nature there is no 'bad' or 'good' is what Christian is getting at I believe.

 
Ntsees said:
True, that parasitoids are not bad. It depends on the situation and personal preference. If you had a garden of tomatoe plants, you'd wish parasitoids were everywhere so they'll get rid of the pests (tobacco hornworm, etc.). But then again, if you own let's say a fish farm, you'd do your best to keep your fish parasite-free so you can sell them in the market (no one wants parasite-infested fish). And yeah, mantids are not all good (ex: feeding on beneficial insects), but we happen to like them so we'll do what we can to protect the ones we have.
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Yeah. It's not just in "nature" either. "Good" and "bad" are always value judgments by the beholder. Our soldiers are good guys, risking their lives to protect us. Enemy soldiers are vicious attackers, killing women and children! Our guerrillas are freedom fighters; theirs are terrorists. Up the Bears! Down with the cheeseheads! My religion is God given. Your religion comes from the devil! And so it goes.

Edit: I am well aware that "pest" insects have to be destroyed if our food is to be as plentiful and inexpensive as it is. I also realize that many entomologists need to spend their time coming up with ways to kill these insects. I just wish that they wouldn't get so much enjoyment out of it!

 
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just think what it would be like of the mantis was bigger then us and decided to breed and raise human beings and how would they treat us heh!

 
massaman said:
kind of hard to eat the fly if it paralyzes the mantis or manages to overpower it!
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yeah true but a mantis isn't just gonna let a fly come up to it and paralyze it somehow and lay eggs in it. I think a mantis would notice a fly and would promptly grab it, unless of course it was molting, which may explain how maggots get through a mantid's tough exoskeleton.

 
agent A said:
yeah true but a mantis isn't just gonna let a fly come up to it and paralyze it somehow and lay eggs in it. I think a mantis would notice a fly and would promptly grab it, unless of course it was molting, which may explain how maggots get through a mantid's tough exoskeleton.
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Am I correct in inferring that they get through the abdomen which is soft? Seems logical to me

 

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