Internal parasites
- Thread starter Rick
- Start date
Help Support Mantidforum:
Peter Clausen
Well-known member
Nature works like this, Agent A:
Small tachinid fly tries to lay eggs on large mantis= mantis lunch
large tachinid fly tries to lay eggs on young mantis= "mantis" lunch
Does that help?
We have to assume that some flies are eaten by the mantises. And we have to assume that some are not. Of course, it is entirely possible that mama fly became food for her own babies after she laid eggs on Rick's mantis.
Small tachinid fly tries to lay eggs on large mantis= mantis lunch
large tachinid fly tries to lay eggs on young mantis= "mantis" lunch
Does that help?
We have to assume that some flies are eaten by the mantises. And we have to assume that some are not. Of course, it is entirely possible that mama fly became food for her own babies after she laid eggs on Rick's mantis.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ntsees
Well-known member
That's what I was thinking of in my earlier post. Another thing, I've never seen a fly that can paralyze and so if it was going to lay it's eggs on a mantid, it would probably be like what you said - lay it's eggs on the mantid when it was molting (I can't think of another time when a mantid is more vulnerable). Anything that may lay it's eggs on the mantid when not molting would have to be extremely small in order to escape the mantid's forelegs, but by judging the size of those parasites, it doesn't look like they are anything small. Very puzzling and interesting at the same time. As usual, we're just waiting to see what Rick finds when those pupae hatches.
Last edited by a moderator:
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
It is not possible for a mantis to get its claws to reach all the way down the thorax and abdomen. There are a number of small parasitic wasps that spend their adult lives on their host, e.g. Matibaria manticida, which preys on the European mantis, Mantis religiosa, and spends much of its life on its host's back and actually feeds off it. This is not some wild exception, either. The habit of one insect hitching a ride on another is called phoresy, and in the case in question, the wasp lives on the female mantis's thorax at the base of the wings and nibbles away until the female starts to lay an ooth, at which time she scoots down to the ovipositer and lays her eggs in the frothy mass before it hardens. If the wasp accidentally hitches a ride on a male, she jumps off him and onto the female during mating. I guess that you could call her a STP. 
Parasitic flies tend to be larger and lay fewer eggs than parasitic wasps, but they are apparently as successful in mounting a mantis as the former. I do know that some, if not all, of these flies lay eggs that hatch into active planidium larvae that can burrow into the host even when it is not molting.
I do hope that people are not put off by terms like "phoresy" and "planidium". The reason that I use them is that it helps anyone who wants to Google the topic.
Parasitic flies tend to be larger and lay fewer eggs than parasitic wasps, but they are apparently as successful in mounting a mantis as the former. I do know that some, if not all, of these flies lay eggs that hatch into active planidium larvae that can burrow into the host even when it is not molting.
I do hope that people are not put off by terms like "phoresy" and "planidium". The reason that I use them is that it helps anyone who wants to Google the topic.
ismart
Well-known member
Now i'm just really pissed off! :angry: I decieded to go to the park yesterday in search of some infected narrow-winged mantids, only to find the parks department mowed down all the weeds , shurbs and bushes where i have found infected narrow-wings before. They did this in a few areas of the park. I just don't understand why they would even bother doing something like that. There are still feilds with undisturbed growth, but now i wonder if these areas are going to get destroyed soon as well. On the bright side i still managed to find some chinese and one adult narrow-winged female. Maybe sometime this week i'll try again.
On the bright side i still managed to find some chinese and one adult narrow-winged female. Maybe sometime this week i'll try again.
:huh: Sounds like you'd better hurry...Now i'm just really pissed off! :angry: I decieded to go to the park yesterday in search of some infected narrow-winged mantids, only to find the parks department mowed down all the weeds , shurbs and bushes where i have found infected narrow-wings before. They did this in a few areas of the park. I just don't understand why they would even bother doing something like that. There are still feilds with undisturbed growth, but now i wonder if these areas are going to get destroyed soon as well.
They do that here too. Half of the area I went to yesterday had been mowed.Now i'm just really pissed off! :angry: I decieded to go to the park yesterday in search of some infected narrow-winged mantids, only to find the parks department mowed down all the weeds , shurbs and bushes where i have found infected narrow-wings before. They did this in a few areas of the park. I just don't understand why they would even bother doing something like that. There are still feilds with undisturbed growth, but now i wonder if these areas are going to get destroyed soon as well.
I am sure the park had a scehdule on when to mow and that was the time they were going to mow it like around where I live there is papers posted sometimes when not to use water for lawns or gardens because its being treated!
ismart
Well-known member
This was not like your common back yard lawn. They took down bushes and small trees that have been growing there for at least 10 years from when i started going there. I just don't understand why they would deciede to chop it all down now? What really ticks me off is they hit the only spot where i knew i could find infected narrow-wings. I know of another population of narrow-wings, but i have never come across one that was infected there. I guess i just have to keep looking! I would have liked to have gone back today, but it's pouring over here.
ismart
Well-known member
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
I have said definitively on this thread that mantids do not become parasitized by eating egg laden tachinid flies and was not surprised to see Christian agree. That being the case, a little evidence to the contrary is not going to change my mind.
I was looking at G. W. Ramsay's Fauna of New Zealand #19: Mantodea, 1989, p.53, published by the now defunct N.Z. DSIR, and came across the following: "An interesting example of endoparasitism has been reported by Brennan (1987), who discovered two fatalities in captive O. newzealandiae which had been fed on the fly Sarcophaga crassipalpis (Miller). Apparently, in both instances eggs or larvae from the fly survived ingestion by the mantid and continued to develop, eventually killing it. Whether or not the maggots reached maturity is not reported." I found the archived copy of The weta10(1) 31, but this short note was not included.
We don't know, though, whether the flies had a chance to lay eggs on the mantids before becoming prey themselves, as Peter suggests, or even whether these were domestically raised or wild-caught mantids. The weta, (now the Journal of the New Zealand Entomological Society) is an amateur publication and I personally don't find the name "Brennan" particularly trustworthy.
On the same page, though, there is an American report that "ten fully grown maggots of Sarcophaga emerging from a dying Stagmomantis carolina, pupating in soil, and later emerging as adults." This is a greater number of maggots than I would have thought one mantis could support. Apparently the mantis agreed.
I was looking at G. W. Ramsay's Fauna of New Zealand #19: Mantodea, 1989, p.53, published by the now defunct N.Z. DSIR, and came across the following: "An interesting example of endoparasitism has been reported by Brennan (1987), who discovered two fatalities in captive O. newzealandiae which had been fed on the fly Sarcophaga crassipalpis (Miller). Apparently, in both instances eggs or larvae from the fly survived ingestion by the mantid and continued to develop, eventually killing it. Whether or not the maggots reached maturity is not reported." I found the archived copy of The weta10(1) 31, but this short note was not included.
We don't know, though, whether the flies had a chance to lay eggs on the mantids before becoming prey themselves, as Peter suggests, or even whether these were domestically raised or wild-caught mantids. The weta, (now the Journal of the New Zealand Entomological Society) is an amateur publication and I personally don't find the name "Brennan" particularly trustworthy.
On the same page, though, there is an American report that "ten fully grown maggots of Sarcophaga emerging from a dying Stagmomantis carolina, pupating in soil, and later emerging as adults." This is a greater number of maggots than I would have thought one mantis could support. Apparently the mantis agreed.
Ntsees
Well-known member
You are right on that because I've never seen my mantids reach down to their abdomen. But I was looking through internet and there appears to be some gray areas. I thought I'd share something I found on the internet (don't know if it could be true or not).
http://www.phasmidsincyberspace.com/PopaSpurca.html
Last edited by a moderator:
cloud jaguar
Well-known member
Rick's pics of the 'self service' mantids are interesting - about a year ago I commented on this phenomena when my s. californica seemed preoccupied with this activity.
superfreak
Well-known member
yeah. butt cleaning is a favorite pastime of my Hierodula. They can reach there, but they cant reach their backs.
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Yep. I can scratch my butt (in private, of course, when Tucker isn't looking) but I can't scratch between my shoulder blades!yeah. butt cleaning is a favorite pastime of my Hierodula. They can reach there, but they cant reach their backs.
Well here we go again. The OTHER type. Remember what I said about how I found them with one big larva inside years ago? I've had another immature carolina the last couple weeks that was VERY fat. I was wondering if it was like what I found before. Noticed today the mantis was very skinny. Looked in the bottom and sure enough there it was. This thing is huge. The mantis looks fine though which is different from the other type that killed the mantis:
revmdn
Well-known member
That's so crazy.
ismart
Well-known member
Last edited by a moderator:
No slit that I can see. Abdomen is a little out of shape but looks ok. Will see what happens.
