President Obama

[patrickfraser]

It's not an obsession. It's a lifestyle. And quite glamorous, I might add. Have you ever seen one really shimmer in the moonlight? You don't know what you're missing.

 

[MantidLord]

:blink: I had no idea my thread would turn into the political debate arena. :lol: That's it, not going to add my 2 cents or anything.

 

[PragmaticHominid]

Look at every animal on earth, how many gay animals do you see reproducing to continue the population, zip, nada, nill. Point made. :tank: Better yet how many animals do you see trying to woo the same sex, but yet you do see 2 males that fight over 1 female just to mate to REPRODUCE. There is a purpose of life dont get me started on abortion.

I'm popping in here to say that anyone who thinks non-human animals don't engage in same-gender sexual behaviors... hasn't been around very many animals. Why, just yesterday my 8-month old Sheltie attempted to have carnal relations with my male cat. Indeed, my male cats frequently mount each other, despite the fact that they have access to females. It should be noted that all my pets and spayed or neutered. Anyone who's kept groups of parrots can also attest to the formation of same-gender pair bounds. And if you REALLY want to heard some stories, you can talk to just about anyone who has experience with keeping goats or other livestock. OR you could go visit the bonobo exhibit at your local zoo, though I'd advice you not to bring small children along, unless you're ready to answer some awkward questions about the birds and bees.

But you really don't have to take my word any of this.Wikipedia has a list of all the mammals that have been witness by researches engaging in same-gender sexual activity. There are similar lists that include birds, fish, reptiles and insects.

Limiting myself to the species with names that begin with "G", the following species have been witnessed engaging in "homosexual activities:"

- Gazelle

- Gelada Baboon

- Giraffe

- Goat (Domestic)

- Golden Monkey

- Gorilla

- Grant's Gazelle

- Grey-headed Flying Fox

- Grey Seal

- Grey squirrel

- Grey Whale

- Grey Wolf

- Grizzly Bear

- Guinea Pig (Domestic)

- Galah

- Gentoo Penguin

- Golden Bishop Bird

- Golden Plover

- Gray-breasted Jay

- Gray-capped Social Weaver

- Gray Heron

- Great Cormorant

- Greater Bird of Paradise

- Greater Flamingo

- Greater Rhea

- Green Sandpiper

- Greenshank

- Greylag Goose

- Griffon Vulture

- Guianan ######-of-the-Rock

- Guillemot

- Grayling (fish)

- Green swordtail

- Guiana leaffish

- Gopher Snake

- Green Anole

- Glasswing Butterfly

- Grape Berry Moth

- Grape Borer

- Green Lacewing

 

[patrickfraser]

OOOOH! GORILLA!

 

[PragmaticHominid]

BTW, the species that the forum censored is called "Guianan C0ck-of-the-Rock."

 

[patrickfraser]

OOOOOOOOOOOH!

 

[PhilinYuma]

Wiki missed out dolphins among whom male homosexuality has been observed in several species --including at the naval research center in Hawaii (don't ask, don't tell):

UNFAIR TO DOLPHINS!!!

And fundamental Christians might remember this. Procreation wasn't God's original plan for nature in the Garden of Eden. If it had been "Adam and Bruce" or Eve and Ella, we might not have had the cOckup (sorry, couldn't help it) that the heterosexual (hetergender?) couple made of things. "And Bruce did offer him the apple, and Adam said unto him. 'No, let's try this saucy little Beaujolais I've just bottled. And they both did drink of the saucy Beaujolais, and it was good'".

 

[patrickfraser]

Great vintage. So I've heard.

 

[Ricardo]

jrh3 got pwned

 

[AmandaLynn]

:blink: I had no idea my thread would turn into the political debate arena. :lol: That's it, not going to add my 2 cents or anything.

Whoa! Is this what a political debate arena sounds like?

 

[AmandaLynn]

:blink: I had no idea my thread would turn into the political debate arena. :lol: That's it, not going to add my 2 cents or anything.

Whoa! Is this what a political debate arena sounds like?

 

[AmandaLynn]

Marriage is about two people who love each other who want to commit to a lifetime together.

That's how I've been raised to understand it and still how I understand it today.

Gender should have nothing to do with marriage. Two people who want to be married should. End of story. There is no reason marriage should be exclusive to a straight couple if their aims are identical to those of a gay couple.

Abortion is as murderous as not using every single one of your sperm cells if you ask me.

Some are born some are not. Stopping one from being born whilst trillions of possible souls will be denied birth by things other then abortion is very minor. Life is about chance , and chances are out of the huge amounts of possible children that a couple could have only a few will succeed in living. Millions will perish into non existence. abortion is just adding one more of those denied souls to millions of others who because of fate could not be born. Not a big deal. Just life carrying on. And it's not even like they are souls that rival ours. We're talking about fetuses.

And if someone is raped why would they want to keep the child? I have no hard feelings for people getting abortions in such scenarios.

I agree that gender should have no restrictions against two adults making a life long commitment and agreement with each another. I support same sex marriage.

I totally disagree on your view of abortion though. Should every girl or woman repent or feel guilty for her unused egg when she gets her period? Sorry for the language but whatever .

The difference to me is when a sperm and ova actually meet and make a new human, that is conception. A major biological change. That's how I started and every other human and mammal, it could have been under planned, but once we begin I think we should have the same rights as anyone else that can't speak for themselves.

 

[Ricardo]

I agree that gender should have no restrictions against two adults making a life long commitment and agreement with each another. I support same sex marriage.

I totally disagree on your view of abortion though. Should every girl or woman repent or feel guilty for her unused egg when she gets her period? Sorry for the language but whatever .

The difference to me is when a sperm and ova actually meet and make a new human, that is conception. A major biological change. That's how I started and every other human and mammal, it could have been under planned, but once we begin I think we should have the same rights as anyone else that can't speak for themselves.

I understand, you make fair points. I support abortion but understand those who don't. Sometimes in arguments like gay rights, I totally dont get the opposing side and just naturally lose some respect, but when it comes to abortion Im totally cool with opposing veiwpoints. My view on abortion will change greatly as Im still just a kid, but I will still probably believe people should have the right to it if they want . . . Like I said life's all chance. . . In my opinion

 

[PhilinYuma]

Whoa! Is this what a political debate arena sounds like?

No. In a political arena, people stop saying "in my opinion", and start looking for action.

For example, a politician eager to win the votes of all of those who consider planned abortion as murder, might propose a law that would make it so. Perhaps he would win.

!.2 million women had abortions in the united states in 2008, and while the doctor who performed the abortion would automatically be found guilty, the woman who had the abortion and arranged for it with the doctor would be considered a co conspirators at the fetus's death.

So since we have seen that death penalty states like Texas still bring a steady stream of prisoners to execution, we can be sure that there will be say, half the current number, of women who are given life imprisonment or the death sentence annually, and when all the doctors who perform abortions in a sterile field have been killed, imprisoned or frightened off, we shall be back to good old Aunty Jane to do the dirty deed with a knitting needle.

So my question to those who have called abortion murder is, is this the kind of law that you would like to see passed in the US?

Hey! Here's an idea! To avoid charges of sexism, let's find the dads guilty of "carnal knowledge before the fact"! And if they say they didn't know that they had gotten the girl pregnant, there's always "depraved indifference".

Don't be shy, folks! Let's hear from you!

 

[MantidLord]

I am going to say this. In regards to same sex marriage (no such thing as a gay marriage), I support their right to get married. You won't see me rallying or anything, but if someone wants to get married, let them. As a Christian, I stand firm by the belief of "who are we to judge?" Therefore, let them take it up with God and stop trying to police others' lives. Besides, it's this controlling behavior that makes others veer away from religion (specifically Christianity) in the first place. Now in terms of abortion, I do not think it should be used as a form of birth control or if someone makes an "accident". However, rape victims I have no problem with.

Now, in terms of the same sex animals. That can not equally be compared to humans. For one reason, those same specimens that exhibited same sex behavior ALSO mated with members of the opposite sex. Furthermore, in some social animals, this behavior seems to strengthen the bond of the whole group (clan, pride, or whatever it's called for that animal). And as stated, not all animals show this type of behavior. True many animals engage in homosexual behavior, compared to the TOTAL number of animals showing this behavior, it is definitely not many. In fact, the list of animals engaging in this behavior is in the MINORITY compared to the rest of the animals. And finally, homosexual behavior in animals has not been studied to a sufficient degree to use it to support either side of mankind's debate. So it's kind of useless to include this in the argument.

 

[patrickfraser]

I am going to say this. In regards to same sex marriage (no such thing as a gay marriage), I support their right to get married. You won't see me rallying or anything, but if someone wants to get married, let them. As a Christian, I stand firm by the belief of "who are we to judge?" Therefore, let them take it up with God and stop trying to police others' lives. Besides, it's this controlling behavior that makes others veer away from religion (specifically Christianity) in the first place. Now in terms of abortion, I do not think it should be used as a form of birth control or if someone makes an "accident". However, rape victims I have no problem with.

Now, in terms of the same sex animals. That can not equally be compared to humans. For one reason, those same specimens that exhibited same sex behavior ALSO mated with members of the opposite sex. Furthermore, in some social animals, this behavior seems to strengthen the bond of the whole group (clan, pride, or whatever it's called for that animal). And as stated, not all animals show this type of behavior. True many animals engage in homosexual behavior, compared to the TOTAL number of animals showing this behavior, it is definitely not many. In fact, the list of animals engaging in this behavior is in the MINORITY compared to the rest of the animals. And finally, homosexual behavior in animals has not been studied to a sufficient degree to use it to support either side of mankind's debate. So it's kind of useless to include this in the argument.

So if all gays would just say they are "bi", they might get a better status within our society and receive less hate? We are, after all, the most advanced "social animal" on the planet, right? But then again, animals don't know religion.

 

[MantidLord]

I try to stray away from comparing humans to animals. If you consider humans the most "advanced social animal" then I would assume humans wouldn't engage in such tasks such as rape, brutal murder, genocide, and overall destruction of the planet (what other animal does all of this?). Now, you seem to misunderstand my remark about the strengthening bonds. In these animals, the engaging of sexual acts is not as..."significant" as we humans see it, or at least in the reproductive stand point. It's like a group of monkeys that groom each others' hair. It builds social bonds, so do these sexual acts. Furthermore, it may establish dominance in a social group. Look at prisons. Male rape isn't going on for the sole purpose of sexual gratification, it's DOMINANCE. A social behavior. And in the prison society, those that are "bi" do have the highest status. Now, you can't possibly compare animal society to human society in terms of building relationships, our behavior is far more complex. There are ways other than sex to establish and build upon relationships. However in other animals, a giraffe can't go buy another one a car or give them a birthday present to build a relationship. In short, you're comparing human social behavior to animal social behavior (which is broad in itself) in order to seek answers (or critique my previous post) about human behavior. Unfortunately, that won't work. The only reason I compared it to prison societies is because in prison, life isn't "normal". In fact many sociologists will argue that it is very primitive. Hence the ease it is to compare to animals.

Now, I don't know (nor do I care) if your last sentence was a satirical remark about religion. If it was, obviously you didn't fully read my post. If it wasn't, and I'm just reading into things, I'll say that religion, as well as race, gender, and other physical attributes and philosophical beliefs have been used to divide and fragment mankind since the creation of this world. It's entirely human nature but it will continue until mankind's destruction. So you won't see a dolphin beating up another dolphin because it's greyer than the other one.

 

[PhilinYuma]

I try to stray away from comparing humans to animals. If you consider humans the most "advanced social animal" then I would assume humans wouldn't engage in such tasks such as rape, brutal murder, genocide, and overall destruction of the planet (what other animal does all of this?). Now, you seem to misunderstand my remark about the strengthening bonds. In these animals, the engaging of sexual acts is not as..."significant" as we humans see it, or at least in the reproductive stand point. It's like a group of monkeys that groom each others' hair. It builds social bonds, so do these sexual acts. Furthermore, it may establish dominance in a social group. Look at prisons. Male rape isn't going on for the sole purpose of sexual gratification, it's DOMINANCE. A social behavior. And in the prison society, those that are "bi" do have the highest status.

You are diluting the force of yr argument, MantidLord, to a point where it is difficult to see your point, probably because you are being reactive rather than proactive.

Egregious errors like this don't help your case, either. There is no reason that you should know much about prison society, but if you don't, don't make statements like this without careful research.

Still, I continue to enjoy your posts! I can't remember if you are one of those who consider abortion murder. If so, could you reply to my earlier post about suitable punishments for the murderers who carry it out?

 

[patrickfraser]

Humans ARE animals. Whatever. You've obviously spent more time in prison than I, so I can't argue anything there.

 

[massaman]

well according to the bible people are not animals but made in gods image and if thats the case I doubt god would be called a animal and dont believe in we evolved but wont make any arguments because it is a no win situation and not into confrontations and turn the other way if any are forged!